Individual posts are seperated by [END POST] and [NEW POST] marks. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: The more I read about Scientology... From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:08:14 GMT On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:16:14 GMT, Harry Krause wrote: >It's not a surprise to me that the Germans outlawed scientology. It also >outlawed the practice of nazi-ism, an earlier form of mind control. Herr Krause: The German government, run by the ruling Christian Democratic Party, is out of step with the rest of the world and IMHO is attempting to maintain the financial and political power which the two established Christian Churches hold in that country. One of its biggest advocates for discrimination against Scientology, Minister of Labor Norbert Bluem, is a trained Christian theologian and the Protestant Church maintains an office at the CDU headquarters in Bonn for the purpose of vetting the policies of the CDU so they remain in alignment with the Christian churches. The two mainline Churches have infiltrated the financial base of the country to a large degree and have usurped political power. wgert Read the Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots www.dancris.com/~rshaw [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Lerma? and the IRS From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 20:34:16 GMT What's Lerma's hidden agenda in so eagerly posting the Church's settlement agreement with the IRS? Arnie Lerma had stated to Kim Baker in a confidential e-mail message in September 1995, that he had the full support of Willis Carto and the patriot movement in the United States - to destroy Scientology. Having secured this backing, Lerma was made Treasurer of FACTNet by Lawrence Wollersheim around the same time period. Lerma, with the support of Carto, along with Wollersheim and the financial backing of Robert Minton, are paid to spread the seeds of hatred and bigotry against Scientology. Privately Minton has been confirmed as bankrolling these anti-religious extremists. They attack Scientology because they are paid mercinaries for the anti-religious bigots. They are ars goons. "The Web is a rapdily evolving environment and it is important to understand that the particulars of any one site can, and often do, change overnight. Others just go away. This volatility should not obscure the central and troubling facts: extremists and racists of all sorts have moved their propaganda efforts intensively and skillfully to the Internet, and their Web sites all share one common goal - to stir social unrest and conflict, and to spread the seeds and cultivate the bitter fruits of anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry." ADL Lerma has never come forth with the truth as to what the backing of Carto consisted of, nor the details of how much money Robert Minton has given to himself and Wollersheim to foment hate aginst the religion of Scientology. He does not want this association known as he stated to Kim Baker. He does not want people to know how much Minton has given him nor for people to know that he is paid to do what he is doing. When I asked him who paid him, he lied about it. wgert Read the Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: 60 Minutes Lies, wart and berry From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 20:52:32 GMT If Tilmann knew his facts he would have some credibility, however..... Berry lied his way through the Fishman case in addition to adding false material to a declaration and filing it with those added lies unbeknownst to the declarant. However since Tilman does not know his facts he may as well get enlightened on some truth -- Berry failed to accomplish anything but confusion in the law suit against Factnet and got his head handed to him by Magistrate Judge Abram. He was clearly devastated by it and forced to file a motrion to withdraw. But I guess that's your definition of flourishing and prospering. wgert Read the Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots www.dancris.com/~rshaw [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: YOUR TAXES PAY FOR SCIENTOLOGY! From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:05:24 GMT On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:13:18 -0700, kwantem@aol.com (kwantem mekanik) wrote: >I find it very disturbing that part of my tax dollars help the Scientology >elite get richer. > Alright - check out Minton in more detail. Your tax dollars help him too to get richer and richer. And Ted Turner too while you are at it. And Rockefeller jnr, III or IVth or whatever generation we're into with them by now. And then the Rothschild's. But perhaps they're on the Scientologists side seeing what LRH wrote about him in ME. [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: YOUR TAXES PAY FOR SCIENTOLOGY! From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:07:45 GMT On 31 Dec 1997 20:26:45 GMT, chowderbot@aol.com (Chowderbot) wrote: >kwantem@aol.com (kwantem mekanik) wrote: > >>I find it very disturbing that part of my tax dollars help the Scientology >>elite get richer. > >Just to keep the record straight, your tax dollars don't. At least relating to >the IRS-Scientology agreement. The Scientology corporations >get out of< >paying taxes. So what we have is a for-profit organization that is not paying >its fair share of taxes. It is fraudulently taking advantage of a benefit in >the tax code. > >Where you could argue that your tax dollars >are< helping Scientology, is where >you are paying for an Ambassador to Germany who wants to help Scientology, IRS >officials who are now defending an indefensible agreement with Scientology, >Congressmen who don't know what they are talking about voting to support >Scientology, a President who schmoozes Travolta by asking Travolta to help him >on the problems Scientology faces, etc., etc. > > >-Chowderbot By extension then, whatever someone doesn't like which is financed with tax dollars must be protested. You've got to found a new nation for yourself, Chowderbot. [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: IRS/Scientology agreement From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:33:26 GMT This IRS settlement story is going to be interesting. There is a confidential government document. It stays confidential for a number of years. Then it's published in the Wall Street Journal. Who had THE real interest in the publication of it? And who had the possibilities to get it out of the IRS? Wallstreet Journal reporter? A.R.S. posters? Young? Berry? Lerma? Minton? The German government? Guess that's a matter for the feds to look into. gwert [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: IRS/Co$ agreement questions From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:56:22 GMT On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:28:39 -0800 (PST), Mixmaster wrote: >>The following are some questions that I've come up with about the >>IRS/Co$ tax decision. Granted, some of these questions are fantasy >>questions, likely never to be answered because of IRS confidentiality >>and suchlike. Please feel free to add your own questions as well. Thank you. Who organized the publication of the settlement agreement, and how much money changed hands for that deal - if any? Did breaking of the news in the Wallstreet Journal cost anybody anything? How much? wgert Read the Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Three years since ... From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 21:34:23 GMT On Thu, 01 Jan 1998 14:22:39 GMT, mirele@super.zippo.com (Deana Holmes) wrote: >"snip" What will the next three years bring? > Here's a fast response: Psychiatry's abuses will have been brought to a halt. Any ARS bigots who supported criminal actions will be under prosecution, will have been prosecuted by then, and/or will be sitting up their time in a penitentiary. wgert [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: ARS supports illegal leaking of Settlement From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 22:27:26 GMT On Thu, 01 Jan 1998 20:47:38 GMT, xenu@mindspring.com (Rob Clark) wrote: >On Thu, 01 Jan 1998 12:33:11 -0600, justin@directnet.com wrote: > >>It is clear from the ARS posters that they support the leaking of the >>confidential settlement and the breaking of the US Tax laws. > >yep. damn straight. > Question: And if that unauthorized disclosure was a felony? You'd still support that? wgert [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,comp.org.eff.talk,alt.politics,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: No Copyright Protection for CRIMINALS From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 22:40:33 GMT On 1 Jan 1998 08:37:31 -0800, lermanet.com wrote: "snip" Arnie Lerma unequivocally stated to Kim Baker in a confidential e-mail message in September 1995, that he had the full support of Willis Carto and the patriot movement in the United States - to destroy Scientology. Having secured this backing, Lerma was made Treasurer of FACTNet by Lawrence Wollersheim around the same time period. Lerma, with the support of Carto, along with Wollersheim and the financial backing of Robert Minton, are paid to spread the seeds of hatred and bigotry against Scientology. Privately Minton has been confirmed as bankrolling these anti-religious extremists. They attack Scientology because they are paid mercinaries for the anti-religious bigots. They are ars goons. wgert Read Rogues Gallery of A.R.S. Bigots www.dancris.com/~rshaw [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: The more I read about Scientology... From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 23:03:43 GMT On Thu, 1 Jan 1998 16:16:41 +0100, Cornelius Krasel wrote: >Harry Krause wrote: >> It's not a surprise to me that the Germans outlawed scientology. > >Scientology is not outlawed in Germany. Scientology is being observed by >the office for protection of the constitution. As a matter of fact, there >are several Scientology orgs in Germany. Several = Hamburg, Dusseldorf, Hannover, Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich, Stuttgart. > >However, the reputation of Scientology in Germany is much worse than in >the U.S. Therefore, some businesses (for example banks) refuse to accept >Scientologists as customers. > >/* Cornelius Krasel, U Wuerzburg, Dept. of Pharmacology, Versbacher Str. 9 */ Did you ever personally meet with F. W. Haack? What does the Department of Pharmacology have to do with this site? What's the relation between pharamcology and scientology? >/* D-97078 Wuerzburg, Germany email: phak004@rzbox.uni-wuerzburg.de SP4 */ >/* "Science is the game we play with God to find out what His rules are." */ [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: IRS/Scientology agreement From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 23:22:11 GMT "The copy tax analysts got two years ago?" You mean to say that two years ago tax analysts got a fed court ruling saying that they could get a copy of the settlement agreement. What's your documentation for that? IRS indicated that it would open an investigation into the disclosure. On Thu, 01 Jan 1998 00:35:08 GMT, mirele@super.zippo.com (Deana Holmes) wrote: >On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:33:26 GMT, wgert@loop.com (wgert) wrote: > >>This IRS settlement story is going to be interesting. >> >>There is a confidential government document. It stays confidential for >>a number of years. Then it's published in the Wall Street Journal. > >Actually, only a story was published in the WSJ. The text of the >agreement was on www.wsj.com . > >>Who had THE real interest in the publication of it? And who had the >>possibilities to get it out of the IRS? >> >>Wallstreet Journal reporter? >>A.R.S. posters? >>Young? >>Berry? >>Lerma? >>Minton? >>The German government? > >How about "none of the above"? Remember, Tax Analysts have only been >in possession of a federal court ruling for 2 years saying that they >could get their hands on the IRS's reasoning in this case. > >>Guess that's a matter for the feds to look into. > >Sure, gertie. Do the words "Pentagon Papers" ring a bell? I don't >think you wanna pursue this, because it will only bring more >attention. > >Deana >mirele@xmission.com [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: ARS wants to suppress IRS investigation into Leak From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 23:31:48 GMT On Thu, 01 Jan 1998 23:08:18 GMT, tallulah@mail.storm.ca (tallulah@storm.ca) wrote: >Now that the agreement has been made public, it's time to confront what it >says, not whine about how it got out. "snip" Eh, don't brush it off. That settlement agreement is allegedly a government document and unauthorized disclosure of it could be a FELONY. The IRS indicated already that it would open an investigation into the disclosure. If the document is genuine, then we're talking about a criminal act. wgert Read the Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots. >In article <883685189.1279983620@dejanews.com>, justin@directnet.com wrote: >>This tells you everything about anything ARS has said or done. >> >>They encourage criminal acts and suppress lawful acts. >> >>These following statements were posted to ARS: >> >>"...even if that person may wind up in jail." >> >>"I'm glad the IRS/OoS agreement was made public, even if done so >>illegally." >> >>Justin > >You know, Justin (apologies for talking to Justin as though he actually >responds to posts, but it seems so impersonal to treat it like a feelingless >bot) -- there is every possibility that the leak of the IRS agreement came >from someone not in government, but within the CoS itself. > >Perhaps a disgruntled ex-member, who saw last week's 60 Minutes piece, decided >that the time had come to make this deal public. Ot it could have been a >current member, who, though publicly loyal, is privately appalled at the >behaviour of the leadership of an organization that claims to be dedicated to >the pursuit of the truth. Or a third party who just happened to come across >the deal, perhaps in a dumpster, or in a forgotten drawer of a government >issue desk that had been sold for scrap. Even wily hackers with a secret lair >within the bowels of the IRS computer system could have happened upon this >deal. It could have been anyone, Justin. Anyone who believed that, in some >cases, the public has a right to know even that which its government believes >should be kept secret. > >did a spokesman lie about the meeting between Miscavige and the IRS that led >to this agreement? Why is your church so ashamed of this deal, that it would >insist that it be kept secret? What hidden crimes is the CoS concealing? > > >K [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: IRS settlement paper verification From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 00:12:36 GMT What information do you have as to who and how the document was leaked to the press. The unauthorized disclosure of it could be a felony. That is if the IRS would actually confirm that the document is genuine in the first place. Perhaps the document is all a big hoax in which case it becomes even more important to determine who and how the alleged document was gotten to the WSJ. wgert On 1 Jan 1998 15:54:00 -0700, cultxpt@primenet.com wrote: >In the secret IRS/Co$ agreement the following corporate bodies got tax >exemption: > >Dianetics Centers International >Dianetics Foundation International >Hubbard Dianetics Foundation > >This is tax exemption under Scientology's 501(c)(3) exemption, yet >DIANETICS IS NOT RELIGIOUS! It is a SCIENCE according to none other >than L. Ron Hubbard. It's a "modern science of mental health" >according to millions of covers on the book Dianetics. > So WHY does Dianetics get to piggyback onto the Church of >Scientology's tax exemption?? > [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: IRS and Grahan Berry From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 00:24:16 GMT I see what you mean. Especially as the federal tax payments which he is speaking about don't even relate to those of a Scientologist. The guy is a WOG (but also posts on this ng). On the other hand, you and your clam and oysters bakery doesn't have anything to do with Scientology either. wgert On Thu, 01 Jan 1998 23:50:54 GMT, heldal@online.no (Andreas Heldal-Lund) wrote: >Are you just plain stupid? This is of topic here, I'm not interested >in any federal income taxes! I'm here to debate Scientology! > >On Thu, 01 Jan 1998 17:41:49 -0600, justin@directnet.com wrote: > >> I've heard that Graham Berry has failed to pay his personal federal income >> taxes for 1992, 1993, and 1994. Records not available for 1995 and 1996. >> >> Such failure to pay income tax resulted in $101,264.34 in federal tax >> liens being levied. The liens are still active. >> >> For 1992 he owes $20,875.02 >> for 1993 he owes $35,951.73 >> for 1994 he owes $44,437.59 >> >> He might have paid something but they are still outstanding. >> >> Should have paid his taxes in the first place. >> >> Justin >> >> -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- >> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: Nice web page on Co$ v. IRS From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 03:13:28 GMT You know what the problem is? You have this preconceived idea that there must be a lie in this whole thing you wrote about this meeting; a contradiction. But there is none. Miscavige knows that. Goldberg knows that. Rathbun knows that. I know that. And you don't - and never will. And if someone in this ng does explain how what is written here is totally correct, you'll look very very silly. All someone has to do is be able to read and understand what you wrote. wgert On 1 Jan 1998 18:19:01 -0700, cultxpt@primenet.com wrote: >There's a nice web page on the Co$/IRS controversy at >http://wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de/~cowen/essays/hatewatch.html. >Whew! I guess I don't have to make one :) Below is a page from that >url: > > >Scientology issues an untruthful statement > on its tax exemption - 19 March 1997 > > > >Ten days after the highly critical New York Times report on the Church >of Scientology's dodgy tax exemption, the Church took >out a full-page advertisement in the same newspaper to rebut the >charges laid against it. The text of this advertisement can also >be found on the Internet at one of the Church's official Web sites: > > >http://hatewatch.freedommag.org/hatewach/ads/ny/nyissu10/page01.htm > >But the Church of Scientology catches itself in a big lie. Its >statement says: > > "Imagine if you were part of an organization at war for decades >with the Internal Revenue Service. Then one day you just happened to >be walking by their national headquarters when you decided to walk in >the front door, barge into the Commissioner's office, without an >appointment, only to have that Commissioner roll out the red carpet, >cater to your every whim and give you the tax exemption you demand. > > But that's not all. > > This meeting and its particulars are so mysterious, a newspaper >reporter decides to file a Freedom of Information Act request and get >the Commissioner's appointment book. And when he does, it shows no >such meeting! > > This then is somehow taken by the reporter as that the meeting >must have taken place, since there is no record of it anywhere. > > Certainly, if true, this would be a sensational story. And if you >were the prestigious New York Times, you would want to confirm the >story was true - that the meeting actually took place - before >printing such. Of course you would verify this with the concerned >parities [sic]. > > Well, The New York Times did print the story - last week, about >the Church of Scientology's recognition as tax exempt - three years >ago. > > The only problem: the story is untrue. No such impromptu, >unscheduled meeting ever did take place." > >But look what David Miscavige said to 10,000 Scientologists at the Los >Angeles Sports Arena on 8 October 1993, in a speech to announce the >granting of tax exemption to the Church of Scientology: > > "In October of 1991, while this war was raging at its apex, Marty >Rathbun and I were in Washington DC. to attend one of these court >hearings I mentioned. It was to be the next day. We had just finished >a lunch meeting and our next appointment wasn't for a couple of hours. >In other words - we had some spare time on our hands. That's not >something we're accustomed to, so - we thought at last we could create >a bit of mischief. We told the lawyers we'd see them in an hour or so >and that we would be down at the IRS building. Of course they had a >good chuckle as we left the room. Off we proceeded to 1111 >Constitution Avenue - which if you didn't know is the address of the >national headquarters of the IRS. We presented ourselves to security >at the front door, signed the visitors log and informed them we were >there to see Fred. They asked - Fred who? We answered, Fred Goldberg >of course, the Commissioner of the IRS. "Is he expecting you?" they >asked. "No", was our response. "but if you phone him on the intercom >and tell him we are from the Church of Scientology, I am sure he'd >love to see us." Have you ever wondered whether we were really >impinging, when we have spoken of the IRS at previous events? Well - >if so - shame on you. > > We did meet with the commissioner, and, as the saying goes - the >rest is history." > >So who is lying? David Miscavige or the Church of Scientology's press >officers? > > > [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: IRS settlement paper verification From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 03:17:14 GMT Keep dreaming. The document, if it is a true copy of the document was published without authorization. That's a felony for whoever did it. wgert On Fri, 02 Jan 1998 00:27:31 GMT, zane@die_spammers.ix.netcom.com (Zane) wrote: >On Fri, 02 Jan 1998 00:12:36 GMT, wgert@loop.com (wgert) wrote: > >>Perhaps the document is all a big hoax > >Heh, right gertie. Those reporters at WSJ sure are dumb-asses eh? It >wouldn't surprise me to see them fall for something like that. > > > >I notice that you and "justin" are hyperventilating over the >disclosure of what may turn out to be an illegal and possibly criminal >agreement between your church and the IRS. Nice to see you >sweating, again. It's round 4 of The Net v. CO$. CO$ is bleeding from >a deep gash on above the right eye and the fight could be stopped at >any moment. > >Zane > [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: A.R.S. Bigot Henson in police custody: photo in Special Freedom broadsheet From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 03:31:04 GMT The special edition of the Church of Scientology's "Freedom" (Clearwater edition), features a photo of Henson in custody by a police officer after an arrest in Los Angeles. Henson was twice arrested in Los Angeles for violating restraining orders and has filled the Internet with fanatical threats of 'smashing', 'killing' and 'burn(ing)'. Recommended is to get your own copy. wgert Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots www.dancris.com/~rshaw [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Jerry Seinfeld?/Degrees? From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 03:46:56 GMT What degrees do A.R.S. Bigots and posters hold? wgert - questionaire Read the Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots www.dancris.com/~rshaw On Thu, 01 Jan 1998 09:34:48 -0800, Monica Pignotti wrote: >Dave Touretzky wrote: >> >> In article <68e3d2$kqc$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, >> Lisa A. Hadler-Lindell wrote: >> > >> >I can't figure what keeps John Travolta, Tom Cruise, and the like--who >> >seem bright enough--involved. >> >> Travolta is quite bright; Cruise is a dope. But both are high school >> dropouts. (Lacking an education is not the same thing as being stupid.) > >Lacking education also has nothing to do with being susceptible to cult >recruitment, nor does intelligence. Most people who get into cults have >had at least some college and many have BA or even advanced degrees. >Some cults, such as Rajneesh, were loaded with professionals with MAs >and PhDs. > >Monica Pignotti [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: IRS/Scientology agreement From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 04:05:09 GMT What do you mean when you say "Scientology said". Scientology is a religion, a subject. You refer to the writings of Scientology, i.e. the scriptures from LRH. Or you mean what one specific Scientologist stated. Clarify. On Thu, 01 Jan 1998 23:58:26 GMT, tilman@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote: >In <34ac2383.124439571@news.loop.com>, wgert@loop.com (wgert) wrote: > >> >>IRS indicated that it would open an investigation into the disclosure. > >We've simply followed scientology's example of "Agressive FOIAing". You >may remember that scientology once said that "snow white" was a legal >operation. > >We do also have a name... maybe "Operation True Blue". >-- >Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4] >tilman@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos [END POST] [NEW POST] Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: Happy 1998 ! From: wgert@loop.com (wgert) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 04:11:36 GMT What's the meaning of the word "enturbulate" for you? You are a WOG, an outsider who aside from some basic software knowledge doesn't have anything to contribute to this ng. And that can be gotten elsewhere. Did other ng's kick you out? wgert On Thu, 01 Jan 1998 00:44:26 GMT, tilman@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote: >It will be hard to enturbulate even more than 1997, >but we'll do our very best !!! > >-- >Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4] >tilman@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos [END POST]