Path: sn.no!uninett.no!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!zdc!szdc!newsp.zippo.com!snews1 From: zane@die_spammers.mabry.com (Zane) Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,comp.org.eff.talk Subject: Re: Cult get Grayd cult off net Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:43:51 GMT Organization: None Lines: 73 Message-ID: <344893b6.64662409@snews.zippo.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-368.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Xref: sn.no alt.religion.scientology:385018 comp.org.eff.talk:73487 On Thu, 16 Oct 1997 21:40:38 GMT, hkhenson@netcom.com (Keith Henson) wrote: >Just heard from Grady. This noon his Tidepool account quit working. >An inquiry reached one Eric Wright of InterVentures (might have the >company name incorrect) and Grady found out that his prepaid account >had been canceled because wgert had complained about Grady's recent >postings about the 'Ho. I called Jim Clearley (sp?) at tidepool.com, I believe he'll be catching hell via postmaster@tidepool.com. It was difficult to get him to stay on the phone, he wanted to hang up each time I pointed out the logical problems in his arguments. What I gather is that the decision was made at least in part (probably primarily) by Eric Wright of Northcoast.com. The e-mail address I got for him is wright@northcoast.com, haven't determined whether it's valid or not. Jim tried to tell me that Grady was canceled for violating Tidepool's TOS, so while we were talking I got it on the screen and started pressing for specifics. Jim mentioned "off topic posts" more than once, and became rather agitated when I point out to him that "off topic" and "ars" are mutually-exclusive concepts, laughable in fact --- especially in the face of the sort of stuff the co$ posts. Jim was also, apparently, under the impression that the co$ was responsible for creating ars and that they had therefore (don't ask _me_ how) some moral authority to pronounce certain participants "off topic". The text of the TOS, in relevant part, is: |Off-topic or inappropriate postings: |There is no restriction on content, except as defined by each newsgroup. |Continued posting of off-topic articles is prohibited. Please note that |commercial advertisements are off-topic in the vast majority of newsgroups. A rather pathetically poorly written bit of pseudo-legalese. The only content defined in alt (or other really) newsgropus is that defined by people who post. Moderated newsgroups are obviously different, and of course they have an immediate way to restrict content. I pointed out this problem to Jim. He was very defensive, but with care I was able to keep him on the phone and talking long enough for him to realize that he had an untenable position. At this point he easily dropped the dime on Eric. At one point Jim tried to broaden the terms of the TOS to cover customer activities which "cause trouble" for Tidepool. I asked him what he'd do if a hundred or so of us picked on some hapless tidepool user by repeatedly complaining about the content of his posts. Jim didn't seem very comfortable with the logical flaws in his position. Jim also told me that they had received a number of e-mail complaints. He _was_ familiar with wgert, but said that others had complained too. Apparently Grady has been the victim of an orchestrated campaign of lies and misinformation from $cientologists who have created the impression that _they_ own ARS and can define what constitutes acceptable content and what does not. I believe the appropriate action for us is to inform wright and others at northcoast and tidepool that they have acted inappropriately, violated their contractural relationship with Grady, and been made fools by lying scientologists. They need to know that removing access by one of our favorite posters will result in much more grief than not removing him. We cannot tolerate censorship by ISPs, this is an issue that goes beyond ARS so I crossed to comp.org.eff.talk. I also declare a personal jihad against wgert. Fi, fi, fo, fum, look out wankergert here I come. Zane