Path: sn.no!uninett.no!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!xemu.demon.co.uk!dave From: Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,comp.org.eff.talk,alt.censorship,misc.legal Subject: Re: Internet Ventures, Inc. (Response) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 14:09:49 +0100 Organization: 1st Canine Chapel of Bob Dobbs Dog (Church of the SubGenius) Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <344cca1d.8671929@news.supernews.com> <344f85c8.61309398@news.calstate.edu> <34513C75.312B433B@tidepool.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: xemu.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: xemu.demon.co.uk [158.152.196.209] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Version 3.03a Lines: 75 Xref: sn.no alt.religion.scientology:387658 comp.org.eff.talk:73774 alt.censorship:171225 misc.legal:162579 In article <34513C75.312B433B@tidepool.com>, Donald Janke writes: > I would like to suggest a newsgroup, for this discussion, should be >where we are >"on topic" to discuss "the acceptable outer limits of free speech" as >opposed to a newsgroup where free speech is utilized to state opinions >about other topics. Two suggestions are "alt.censorship" and >"comp.org.eff.talk". I would welcome Grady's opinion on where he feels >a discussion of "free speech" would be "on topic". It is an interesting suggestion. First of all, you have wronged Grady and he hasn't forgone his right to sue you. Most of all you acted fraudulently -- you knew you were wrong so you invented new terms of service which you applied retrospectively. The complaint was based on a falsehood viz that Mr Gertler was "an admin of supernews" and spoke with the authority of that company. For this reason it might be best for Grady to sue, you to admit liability, and for him to pursue Gertler for "inducing other to cdommit tortious acts by deception" and get discovery of his identity, organisational links, who gives him instructions, etcetera (probably he is employed by the CoS's OSA at Los Angeles). Second, any discussion whould be crossposted to this newsgroup because people here on both sides are the main ones interested and not all of them will move to different group; a crosspost to the current three newsgroups is fine. You should take legal advice on this. This is certainly the case where the information is hosted from the ISP's own machines such as webpages. The case of UseNet may be even laxer, i.e. you should possibly not interfere at all but should say "take it up with the user". legal advice should be part of the input, and you might want to include misc.legal for this reason. The actual terms should be something like: (1) RECOURSE BY THE I.S.P. for system disruption. The ISP may limit, suspend, or terminate an account for actions on UseNet which amount to mis-use of the system, wasting resources not contracted for, or causing disruption to other systems. This includes posting "spam" material which exceeds the Briebart Index, and cancelling of articles without authorisation i.e. when they not youir own articles or spam articles. The I.S.P. disclaims all responsibility for the content of articles it has not written or editted. (2) RECOURSE BY EXTERNAL COMPLAINANTS. If the content of material is unlawful, complainiants should take this up with the user---letters may be forwarded to the user via the ISP. If they feel the ISP should be prevented from circulating such articles, the ISP will obey any Temporary Restraining Order awarded ny the courts. Users will be approached to show cause why their accounts should not be suspended if the complainant enloses prima facie evidence of an offense [e.g. proof of copyright ownership], for a maximum of thirty days pending court action or the user conceding, and provided that the complainant undrtakes to pay damages if their complaint is later found to be malicious or unreasonable. |~/ |~/ ~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~ P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O L |{a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"}{/a}_____________|/_______| L and{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/lynx/q0.html"}{/a}XemuSP4(:)