Path: sn.no!news-feed.ifi.uio.no!recycled.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newshub2.home.com!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!zdc!szdc!newsp.zippo.com!snews3 From: ted@ibexbsc.com.xenu.antispam (Ted) Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,comp.org.eff.talk,alt.censorship Subject: Re: Internet Ventures, Inc. (Response) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 21:05:06 GMT Organization: Xenu Travel Services -- The multiverse at your doorstep, our 75,000,000th year. Lines: 94 Message-ID: <3455a64c.223845349@snews.zippo.com> References: <344cca1d.8671929@news.supernews.com> <344f85c8.61309398@news.calstate.edu> <34513C75.312B433B@tidepool.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-385.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keywords: So called "Church" of Scientology: crutch, fake religion, Scam of Scientology, Hate Group, Church of Threats and Pointless Coercion, extortionists, frauds and forgers, 'Ho, Corn-hole, Fake-Religion, Fraud, Ingram/Engram, Pimp, Bad-Cop, 'HoMeister, Thugs, Clams, Criminal Cult, Criminal Syndicate, Whiners, Pretenders X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.01/32.397 X-No-Archive: yes Xref: sn.no alt.religion.scientology:388032 comp.org.eff.talk:73824 alt.censorship:171352 Donald Janke wrote: ... snip ... > Rather than taking it to the "Judge" I am proposing that we (Grady and >Tidepool) take it to the netizens. What I am suggesting is that this >dispute be opened to all on a newsgroup where both sides of the issue, >and opinions of interested parties, can be presented in an open forum. > In order for Grady to participate, and present his opinions, I have >asked the >Tidepool folks to "unlock" Grady's user account. This does assume that >while participating in a "court of netizens" Grady will abide by the >original terms which >he agreed to when he opened his Tidepool account. > I would like to suggest a newsgroup, for this discussion, should be >where we are >"on topic" to discuss "the acceptable outer limits of free speech" as >opposed to a newsgroup where free speech is utilized to state opinions >about other topics. Two suggestions are "alt.censorship" and >"comp.org.eff.talk". I would welcome Grady's opinion on where he feels >a discussion of "free speech" would be "on topic". This is very on topic in the ARS newsgroup. What the heck, the tactic of inviting uninformed parties into a fray is very old; happens every time some club wants the city to build their new clubhouse for 'em. Why should it be different on the net. In my view Tidepool screwed up. But, I'm glad this came up when it did. I'm going to be shopping for some high-speed internet services after New Years, and eventually I would have run into the subsidiaries in Western Colorado -- they're a wee bit closer than Colorado Springs or Denver. I'd expect less metropolitan arrogance on the Western Slope; I see I'd be wrong, if they adhere to a common corporate policy book. Articles posted by janda@dimensional.com (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran, zane@die_spammers.mabry.com (Zane), and in fact most who've posted in this thread on ARS (through this morning) echo my view on Tidepool's actions, more clearly and eloquently. Judging by Tidepool's actions and your letter, I'd say you're bound and determined to pursue a policy of censorship. This is very stupid. Anything your company/companies can do in the censorship arena, the government can do better; at first as a favor; later as a requirement of doing business. Ultimately you lose control of the company. If the government doesn't absorb your control, the company acquires the liability of being responsible for all their client's posts. It's better to try for common carrier status and I'm not sure why you haven't had hate mail from other ISPs. (Now that this is being played out in several other newsgroups, perhaps they'll notice you!) Let's see .... * Censoring posts, which will probably select for a very bland conformity amongst a complacent user base. (Did I mention the ISP I'm thinking of starting that will cancel anything that doesn't have a decidedly militant muslilm content; no connects or interchange with heretic sites? Just kidding. Really.) * Acting in a way that invites the government to take increasing control over the campany's operations and decisions. * Killing an account based on nothing but the lies of someone who's not an admin, not a party to the dispute, or the target of a posting. Seems like maybe no one at Tidepool is interested in managing the company; in which case it probably won't be around next year and all this drama will be for nought. Ted -- ====================================================================== email: ted@ibexbsc.com All day smirkin/jokin/degradin WWW: http://rainbow.rmi.net/~tpurdy/mar97.html Bored? Stupid? Thinking of getting suckered by the vile International Criminal Syndicate founded by the dead SF hack with the hammy face? (Elron Hubbard, since you asked) Get the facts about the blood sucking vampires of the soul and wallet, $cientology, Dianetics, Applied Scholastics, CCHR, & other $cientology-Cult front groups, at: http://home.sol.no/heldal/CoS/ http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/scientology/home.html http://wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de/~gerard/why/ http://www.ezlink.com/~rayr/scieno.htm http://www.whidbey.net/~skyhawk/cos/ http://wwwperso.hol.fr/~rgonnet Speaking only for myself. (and a bunch of other people that you don't know!) "Do you know where your BTs are tonight?" ======================================================================