Path: sn.no!Norway.EU.net!uninett.no!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!192.48.96.125!in3.uu.net!news.deltanet.com!not-for-mail From: jbredeho@delta1.deltanet.com (John E. Bredehoft) Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,comp.org.eff.talk,alt.censorship,misc.legal Subject: Re: Internet Ventures, Inc. (Response) Date: 27 Oct 1997 20:43:43 GMT Organization: Delta Internet Services, Inc. Lines: 77 Message-ID: <632udv$jej$2@news01.deltanet.com> References: <344cca1d.8671929@news.supernews.com> <344f85c8.61309398@news.calstate.edu> <34513C75.312B433B@tidepool.com> Reply-To: jbredeho@deltanet.com NNTP-Posting-Host: delta1.deltanet.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test58 (13 May 97) Xref: sn.no alt.religion.scientology:388291 comp.org.eff.talk:73860 alt.censorship:171422 misc.legal:162782 In article <34513C75.312B433B@tidepool.com>, Donald Janke wrote: >This is an open letter to Netizens who have been following the dispute >between Grady Ward and Tidepool Internet. [snip] >In reading postings in this newsgroup, and other related newsgroups, it >seems that some posters object to the locking of Grady's account. Other >posters feel the locking had merit. It also appears that some posters >feel >they have not heard enough information about this dispute. > Our actions in this dispute were necessitated by abusive and >defamatory >comments, in a single posting, that Grady directed towards another human >being. We became drawn into this posting when we received a formal >complaint regarding his >postings. We had no choice but to terminate his account, under the >original >terms he himself agreed to upon opening his Tidepool account. Under which term was his account terminated? > As we all know, the bounds of free speech limits on the Net are >fragmented and unclear. However, there must be some outer limit to free >speech. Exactly where that limit occurs is subject to interpretation. >I have determined, for my life, where >to set my outer limit. Others have certainly set their limits to the >left and right >of my position. Within the IVI family of companies we certainly find >ourselves with >a spectrum of opinions on how far is "out of bounds" for free speech. > However this dispute is not about mine or other's personal opinions >of free >speech, it is about the outer limits that a company must set when they >decide to be >in business. As a company our limit is set when a another netizen >complains that >they were offended by language so strong that a lawsuit could result. This is a rather low threshold, inasmuch as frivolous lawsuits occur all the time. It's troubling to think that Grady may have only received his account back because of *his* threat to sue. >However, >even here the law seems open to interpretation until one stands before a >judge and >says "YOU DECIDE". > Rather than taking it to the "Judge" I am proposing that we (Grady and >Tidepool) take it to the netizens. What I am suggesting is that this >dispute be opened to all on a newsgroup where both sides of the issue, >and opinions of interested parties, can be presented in an open forum. > In order for Grady to participate, and present his opinions, I have >asked the >Tidepool folks to "unlock" Grady's user account. This does assume that >while participating in a "court of netizens" Grady will abide by the >original terms which >he agreed to when he opened his Tidepool account. Again, it would be interesting to see which particular term could be potentially violated. > I would like to suggest a newsgroup, for this discussion, should be >where we are >"on topic" to discuss "the acceptable outer limits of free speech" as >opposed to a newsgroup where free speech is utilized to state opinions >about other topics. Two suggestions are "alt.censorship" and >"comp.org.eff.talk". I would welcome Grady's opinion on where he feels >a discussion of "free speech" would be "on topic". So, in your opinion, this discussion would not be on-topic in alt.religion.scientology? Or misc.legal? -- "Think different," Mr. Jobs: Stick an Amiga up your nose! Wear your socks inside out! Tell potential buyers how your computers will meet their needs!