Presenting
Alt.religion.scientology Week in Review

Volume 10, Issue 36 - September 9 2006


Happy Anniversary Operation Clambake!

Several reports, pictures and media have been posted from the wonderful weekend event held in Norway to honor the 10th Anniversary of Operation Clambake:

http://www.xenu.net:

On September 2, 2006 a number of congratulations were expressed:

from the Operation Clambake message board:

http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=20548

Andreas wrote:

Thank you guys, I truly appreciate all your kind words. But this anniversary is absolutely not about me, it's about criticism of this cult on the Internet. Operation Clambake is just a web site, what made me create it and what inspired and motivated me were (and are) all the other critics and the victims. Operation Clambake is just a result of all the suffering and sacrifice others made. Marking the 10 year anniversary of Operation Clambake is to tribute all of them and I hope you join me in that wherever you are today. I get far too much praise already and would prefer it was distributed more.

The anniversary in Stavanger has been fantastic for me so far. We have guests from France, Sweden, Denmark, United Kingdom, Italy, Norway and America. Tory had a talk at noon today (Roger helping with the 'Wall of Fire' details) and I am just back from the world premier of Brett Hanovers fantastic movie 'The Bridge'. It is going to be a hit on the 'Net!!!

We're now all changing and resting before the anniversary dinner. Reports , video and pictures will come - promise. And the local newspaper (Rogalands Avis) had a two page article about Operation Clambake tonight. Will provide quotes and scans when things settle down after all the partying.

Andreas - www.xenu.net
- Life is not a test.

--

Pictures of the event can be viewed at:

http://stavanger-september-2006.blogspot.com/

and

http://home.online.no/~heldal/blogmedia/

--

"Mark Bunker" posted:

My sweet Magooski is an international sensation. Here she is on this morning's edition of "God Morgen Norge."

http://www.xenutv.com/int/godmorgen-tory.htm

--

"The Daily Motion" also carried video of Tory Christman's coverage on the Norwegian television program "Good Morning Norway"

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd3w0_scientology-tory-christman-in-norwa

--

"Tory Christman" wrote:

Hey Markie! How did you snag "Norway Channel 2"?? Thank you! and Thank you to Andreas for setting it up.

I have to say, being that it was set up for Monday morning, and I -hate- morning interviews, plus having to get to the airport and through security and on the plane by 11:00...this was a high pressure interview, from behind the scenes.

Just a bit of background...
I had heard there was going to be a 'religious expert' (Who Andreas thought was more or less a critic--or would be speaking from that view). I thought it sounded a bit fishy, (especially in Norway! :)) ......but was willing to give it a shot.

First of all, I had flown from the party in Stravanger one side of Norway where Andreas lives to the other side, in Oslo, on Sunday night, and didn't get to sleep until 1:30...having to be up at 5:30. As we all went to bed, his sister and family realized none of us were morning people, so who was going to wake me up? Details....details....but I know me, and I wouldn't hear someone's cell alarm. Thankfully, Andreas called his sister, woke her up, and she was kind enough to get up, give me coffee, and I was on my way in a cab to Channel 2 Tv. by 6:20 am.

Thank you to Mark, and Andreas...........I'd totally forgotten about taping it....so I really appreciate it.

Sitting in the lounge I was with a band who were going to play, so they loved hearing my story. As I told it, this 'religious expert' arrived. I could tell by here frowns that she wasn't with me. Then she rolled/snapped into how "Scientology IS a religion". I decided to get this sorted out right away, telling her I don't give a darn what people believe, I speak out due to the abuses of Scientology. She really frowned then, and I guess got her say in, which I had no idea what she was rattling off about...and that was truly weird!

However, I'd heard her say "New Age" and I know Scientology has tried in the past to plug into the New Age movement, of which most just laughed at us, years ago when we did. (I was with the PR division years ago, when C of S literally put dark green covers on ALL of Hubbard's books, with a tiny gold tree on the bottom, and handed out tiny live trees to the media, at a New Age conference. I was one of the people handing out the trees. Even then I couldn't help but think: What a bunch of phony's! I had tried to get them to recycle at Flag, for example, around this same time, where they pitch out thousands of cans daily, to which they said, "We don't have time, Tory". We all know they use more paper, and glossy paper, to kill major forests and prove they are NOT "New Age".

Anyways, the station was very kind, we finished the interview, they had a cab there ready to take me to the Airport, and despite the endless security nightmares, I made it home, surprised to hear myself sound SO funny re the accent. I kept telling Andreas, "I'm not leaving"...I guess I meant it.

But I think it turned out well, over all.........and how exciting! My first "International" talks, as I also spoke at the Norwegian Humanist Society, 2 days after I arrived, which hopefully Andreas will have up soon.

My greatest love to all, especially Andreas, for setting this up, Channel 2 Norway for inviting me on, and www.xenutv.com for catching this!

Tory/Magoo--Doing Norwegian Dances in the Moonlight

--

"Brett Hanover" posted information about the movie previewed in Norway at the Anniversary, called "The Bridge"

The ONLY official website for "The Bridge" is www.bretthanover.com under the films tab. You can also find udates under news.

The only other official sources for information will be xenu.net and xenutv, when the film goes online.

Any other sites you have seen are not mine, and contain innacurate information. I would also like to clear up another notion I have seen on the boards. This films is an original script, written by myself and my assistand director. While several 'high profile' critics offered advice, financing, and even acting for the film, the content was written before their involvement.

If you have any direct questions, you may contact me at [e-mail]

Thanks, Brett Hanover

--

"Druac" posted:

Very modest of you Andreas, and well said. It still takes selfless people like you that have nothing to gain or any connection to the cult, to provide a place for a community to take root. You deserve all the thanks you get. However, you are correct, it also requires the bravery of those that come out of the ashes to tell their stories and expose the truth of this cult, knowing full well that they will be attacked for it.

Congratulations to the entire community for 10 years of brave and selfless acts in the face of a terrorist cult like $cientology...WELL DONE ALL!

--

"Gerry Armstrong" posted:

[Clambake's EP]

All right, Hmm
Mamma's little baby loves clambake, clambake
Mamma's little baby loves clambake too
Mamma's little baby loves clambake, clambake
Mamma's little baby loves clambake too

Hey listen world you've gotta know
I'm cuttin loose and lettin' go
Who needs the worry and the strife
Life can be a ball now just followin' my life
clambake, gonna have a clambake
clambake, gonna have a clambake

Look for the brightest lights in town
That's where you'll find me hanging round
I've got this feeling to be free
I pick and choose the life I want
And that's the life for me
clambake, gonna have a clambake
clambake, gonna have a clambake

Mamma's little baby loves clambake, clambake
Mamma's little baby loves clambake too
Mamma's little baby loves clambake, clambake
Mamma's little baby loves clambake too

All right

Look for the brightest lights in town
That's where you'll find me hanging round
I've got this feeling to be free
I pick and choose the life I want
And that's the life for me
clambake, gonna have a clambake
clambake, gonna have a clambake

Mamma's little baby loves clambake, clambake
Mamma's little baby loves clambake too
Mamma's little baby loves clambake, clambake
Mamma's little baby loves clambake too Hey!

Mamma's little baby loves clambake, clambake
Mamma's little baby loves clambake too
Mamma's little baby loves clambake, clambakev Mamma's little baby loves clambake too
Mamma's little baby loves clambake, clambake
Mamma's little baby loves clambake too

http://www.jencomics.com/artist_e/elvis_presley_lyrics/clambake_lyrics.html

Happy clambake, Clambake

Gerry & Caroline

Gerry Armstrong
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org

--

"Tory Christman" posted a report of her trip to Norway:

[Xenu.net's 10th Anniversary Celebration and Then some]

I thought I'd share with you all some of my wonderful trip to Norway. First of all, I've never been out of the country, so this was my very first trip out of the USA. Andreas had helped me (via encouragement, how, etc) to get my passport, some years ago, and I began saving to go to Norway, with my little Norwegian Savings account.

I flew there, arriving last Saturday morning the 25th of August. Andreas picked me up at the Oslo airport, and what fun to actually walk out and see Andreas there, in his country! We spent the day cruising around Oslo. There was a huge festival that day, celebrating the Crown Prince and Crown Princess, so all of the volunteer charities were set up in downtown Oslo. Andreas explained to me that instead of gifts, they had asked people to donate to their favorite charity. Oslo is SO beautiful, and the people just seemed so friendly and nice, and quite happy.

From there, we headed off to lunch in a delightful restaurant with super yummy food. After Andreas drove me around to where he lived as a young man, then later, and around Oslo more. The beauty was beyond belief for me. Coming from LA, where I drive one hour in traffic and cement to get to work, with people flipping us off, honking, cutting each other off, and most having sort of a hunted look just surviving, to see these relaxed, happy people was a daily shock to me.

He told me I was speaking the next day (DOH!) at the Humanist Society, so we returned to his sisters where I began reviewing what I was going to say. I had bought a new camera to take pictures of my trip, and got many great shots of it so far. Happily, the sun was out most of my visit.

The next day we went to the Humanist Society, where about 35 people showed up for the talk. It lasted one hour and 50 minutes, and then Andreas spoke in Norwegian, doing sort of a Q and A in Norwegian. It was so fun for me to see him in action, in his own homeland.

After a few of us went out to dinner, and had a delightful dinner right on the water in Oslo. I met the person who inspired Andreas to literally look into Scientology. He is the first person to sue Scientology in Norway and win, and he was great to speak with. It rained as we left, but most of the trip it was surprisingly sunny and pretty.

[...]

I think we arrived in Stravanger sometime in the evening, Wednesday night. I was staying in a lovely local hotel. Really, it's like a two or three story home, very cozy. The room I was in, soon to be shared with Bid, was SUPER tiny....with two tiny twin beds, and a communal bathrooms, which all worked out just fine. We had breakfast there in the am, and their breakfasts really are that, and then some.

[...]

Friday various people began to arrive for the 10th Anniversary of www.xenu.net First we picked up Bid, who is from Sweden. She and I shared the tiny room, and had great fun together. Next came Dorta, from Denmark, and then Roger Gonnet from France. One more critic came from France, and Zorro ---a delightful critic/clown from France, also. Then Stephano came from Italy. So we had a great international celebration! Friday night we all headed out for dinner, and Dorta got the idea of passing out invitations to the talk, Saturday. Andreas printed them off, and as we all headed to dinner, in the parking lot we SP's headed out to put invitations on cars.

We ate, had a great time together, talking and just sharing great food and stories together, and getting to know each other in person. Most of us had know each other on-line, but this was terrific, to meet and break bread.

After we strolled around downtown Stravanger where the night life was jumping, and we invited various people to come to our talk, the next day...of which a few did show up. It's always fun to hear/see their responses, when I first ask, "Have you ever heard of Scientology?" Believe it or not, in Norway, many people said, "No". Then I'd ask, "Tom Cruise, John Travolta?" Then they remembered what I was referring to. Their night life was jumping, and that was fun to walk by, right by all the boats on the waters. We returned to our little hotel to chat a bit, and then off to sleep well.

Saturday Andreas picked us up, and we headed to the Sting Cafe for our talk, which was right in downtown Stravanger. It was intimate, and more people showed up for the talk, and a few more critics arrived from the night before. Some of Andreas friends showed up, too, and a few Humanists, who we ended up meeting all over town while there (various other Humanists).

Downtown Stravanger is beautiful, and we all strolled over to a cafe there, to grab some coffee and snacks before the show.

After the talk, we went over to the theater to watch the premiere of the first critical Scientology movie, "The Bridge". The theater was filled, and everyone seemed to like it quite a bit. Andreas asked for people's responses, and as Bid said, "That went right to my heart". Hopefully it will be on-line, if it isn't already.

We returned to the hotel to rest a bit, and then get ready for our dinner. Some of the critics cruised around Stravanger to shop, which I wish I had done, too, but didn't.

Dinner was terrific! We had an intimate room in the Sting Restaurant, and for me it was perfect. Sometimes there are too many people at a party, and it's almost like you rarely get to talk with anyone, really. This wasn't like this: There were just enough people so we all could talk, laugh, share together.

The new clown/critic started the night blowing up red heart balloons for all of the ladies, which we all loved. He periodically did different fun tricks with ropes, etc. All brought great laughs. The dinner was delicious, and one of Andreas' friends knew someone from a cafe near by, who invited us all over, after dinner. Before we left, we took photos with Xenu, who I had brought from LA, given to me by Feisty, at our last picket. (International Xenu!)

We strolled over to the cafe, where they had great coffee, tea, and fresh baked brownies. Mmmmm......we chatted, Andreas played some great clips of various critic music, and finally around 1 am, the waitress announced she was leaving, but we were invited to go upstairs. The upstairs is like someone's home....couches, nice lighting, just wonderful. We all sat and talked, sipped wine and shared more stories...... until about 2-3 am, when we finally all decided it was time to call it a night.

I was beginning to get sad, realizing my trip to Norway was soon to end The next day, again we all had breakfast together, and then began to plan the day of helping each other to the Airport. Andreas hates it when I compliment him, so don't read this, Andreas! But truly, he was one of THE best hosts I've ever watched, and I've been around many great hosts and hostesses. His usage of computers is all time, and watching him in action, making reservations, taking photos and getting them to his blog (created by his friend, Frode--pronounced 'froodah'), taking and making phone calls, I'm sure doing business in-between, just doing everything so efficiently, always amazed me.

He drove me to the Airport, to buy my ticket to fly back to Oslo, where I'd do the talk show Monday morning, on Good Morning Norway. Andreas, then got Roger Gonnet, and took him to the airport. Since we had quite a bit of time before the flights, Bid, Dorta and Jeff and I all went with Andreas to the Norwegian Oil Museum. This was again, truly amazing to see!

After, we headed out to a nice French Restaurant for more tasty lunch, and delicious deserts which we shared. Finally, at 7 pm, I had to say good-bye to my dear friend, who has helped me so much for 6 years now, and totally showed me the best time here in Norway. Booooooooooooooooooo. I didn't want to leave Norway.

Bid was having some difficulty with her flights, so I had to say good-bye to Bid and Andreas, and as I walked off, he was filming, as usual. We both smiled, and off I went to Oslo. The next day I got up at 5:30 am, to do the Good morning Norway tv show, posted by Mark Bunker at www.xenutv.com Thank you, Markie!!! Flying home took 17 hours I think...a long flight. I arrived back to LAX to a zoo beyond belief. People bumping into each other, cops yelling, "Get out of the way!" Such a different world than Norway. Along the way I met a man who had made a brief film about Scientology some years ago and told me, "They hate me!" (guess who, OSA :) We shared stories, and he was wild to talk with. Also, in the Super Shuttle, I happen to ride with a key LA figure Scientology is trying to get in with, and after hearing my story, he told me he couldn't thank me enough. He knew they were a cult, he said, but still was happy to meet someone who'd done it all, and was out. We shared e-mails, and I told him if he ever needs any help, or needs questions answered, to drop me a line.

Saying this was a great trip, is an understatement beyond belief. So sorry if it's too long, but hey, one only has a 10 year Anniversary every 10 years, although we all agreed to meet again next year, for more fun in another country. All are invited My love and thanks to Andreas, and all who came to share this delightful Anniversary. We knew there were many who were there in Spirit, and we gave many "Skoles" to each of the critics who have become our friends, over the years.

Happiness and many new friendships and meetings to come

Tory/Magoo -Dancing in the moonlight-

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Introducing, "The Bridge"

On September 9, 2006 "Mark Bunker" posted:

XENU TV is proud to present the net debut of the first full length motion picture about Scientology: Brett Hanover's "The Bridge."

http://www.xenutv.com/thebridge.htm

Entire movie available in Google Video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-281401132405721769&hl=en [video file]

Download "The Bridge" for your PC, MAC, IPod or PSP at

Part One
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=501007278764123419&hl=en [video file]
Part Two
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6956990687214573180&hl=en [video file]
Part Three
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6999784327727666650&hl=en [video file]
Part Four
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1577879641801243986&hl=en [video file]
Part Five
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1209673473052654310&hl=en [video file]

Also available at the Daily Motion:
http://www.dailymotion.com/XENUTV/1

--

"John Dorsay" wrote:

Mark kindly provided this version to me. It is now available at

http://www.torrentbox.com/download/65206/TheBridge.mpg.torrent

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--

Comments and Reviews:

"Mark Bunker" posted:

I had the great pleasure of seeing "The Bridge" last night and I'm happy to report it is a very well done film. Brett is an extremely talented guy. His choices are strong and smart.

I'm especially impressed by his use of color in the movie. I'm not going to say more on that or other specific elements of the film until you've seen it but you'll have that chance very soon.

The film doesn't suffer from having obviously been shot on a shoestring budget. Brett takes advantage of the materials he has at hand and pulls the film off admirably. The tone and style reminded me much of the films of Jim Jarmusch and should be recieved well at any film festival.

I was surprised to find a tear come to my eyes at one point and I found myself laughing out loud a few times. I would have to call the film a success. Tom's performance is very good as are those of the other actors who stay very much in the naturalistic style that Brett set for the movie. There's no scenery chewing anywhere in sight.

My happiest discovery is that it is a very smart film. It credits the audience with intelligence and never talks down. I'm not entirely certain how the film will play to people who aren't steeped in the background of Scientology. The more you know about the issues, the more you'll immediately recognize what is going on at the Org. However, I think that just might be a plus for many. You are dropped into an alien world and discoveries are made for the audience as they are being made for the young woman at the core of the story.

Brett has made a very important movie and one of which he can be very proud.

--

"Out of the Dark" posted:

Mr. Mark,

Thank you! I really enjoyed this, including the scenes that brought tears to my eyes.

Everyone did a great job and will be a very effective film for exposing what Scientology really is. They had to work within a small budget but accomplish much.Tom gets a B plus for being a newbie actor and pulling it off like a pro. I give it a B plus overall grade.

That Ronnie Miscavige video, with the vocals at the end must surely be driving the cult nuts!

--

"Maggie" wrote:

Very powerful. I love the soundtrack [queso, take a bow], down to the incidentals!

The direction, pace, use of color, light, angles - awesome, and I'm hard to please with indie films. The girl who played Dianne Wheat was excellent.

How the hell did he get permission from the Jive Aces to use that clip? Was it a Harry Fox deal or did they deal direct?

Helluva job. Thank you so much to Mr. Hanover for letting us see it.

--

"Fred Durks" wrote:

I just got my copy of the DVD in the mail today from Brett. What a great movie! He did a great job on this. It's great this movie got out without OSA and Scientology getting in the way.

It will be on my site(s) tonight.

www.stopscientology.com
www.scientomogy.com
www.freexenu.com
www.whatisscientology.net
www.boycottscientology.com
www.boycotttomcruise.com
www.boycottmi3.com
www.religiousfreedomwatch.info

--

"Simkatu" wrote:

WOW! That is so cool that Hanover was able to get a copy of Ronnie Miscavige telling people how they can dupe others to join Scientology and get more people in their missions to scam them out of more money.

I wonder if the idiots at OSA will try to sue to get this removed?

I sure hope so!

The more Scientology shows that it is intolerant of criticism, the worse they look to the public. And one more lawsuit to make the front page of the papers will lead another 100,000 people to watch the video and discover just what a sick cult this outfit is.

--

"Roger Gonnet" wrote:

I loved it -- we saw the entire, presented by Xenu. Emotionally welldone, to the point.

--

"Tory Christman" wrote:

[...]

As I pointed out when we saw it, the movie communicates the absolute lonliness one feels when you're so trapped in a cult, and what others feel when Scientology's "Disconnection" Is used, which it is used WAY too often to break up families. Also, and more key, who cares? Those that shall see this would never know...or care.

I just talked to one more family last night where this "Disconnection" has begun. The shock, sadness, utter horror is truly beyond words...but you all captured it quite well.

Good job!

Tory/Magoo

--

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Scientology in Switzerland Court

On September 8, 2006 the Le GRAVIS reported the status of cases by Jean-Luc Barbier against Scientology in Switzerland:

[In French] Thanks to Eldon B for translation

Jean-Luc Barbier persiste et signe !

Jean-Luc Barbier accuse la scientologie d'etre une Eglise criminelle aux pratique medicales dangereuses et illegales.

Apres trois ans de procedure et plus de 1200 pages au dossier de l'instruction la scientologie a retire sa contre-plainte voyant que Jean-Luc Barbier allait apporter les preuves de ses accusations !

Jean-Luc Barbier s'est opposem a un tel classement et a demande a la justice que la scientologie soit condamnee a payer ses frais de procedure et qu elle lui verse des dommages et interets pour avoir instrumentaliser la justice dans le seul but de porter atteinte a son honneur. La scientologie ayant annonce precipitemment sa culpabilite dans les medias il demande egalement qu'elle publie des rectificatifs a ses frais.

Deux nouvelles plaintes ont ete deposees au mois de juin 2006 contre la scientologie

Deux plaintes pour diffamation ont ete deposees par Jean-Luc Barbier : l'une contre M. Jurg Stettler, directeur de la scientologie suisse et des services secrets de la scientologie (OSA); l'autre contre l'avocate scientologue Madame Gabriella Arm, co-directrice du service OSA.

Si la scientologie ne represente aucun danger pour la securite de l'etat (selon le rapport federal de police 2002), elle represente bien un reel danger pour les citoyens. Qui peut vraiment resister a sont mobbing et sa manipulation ecrasante sans y perdre ses nerfs et sa fortune ?

Jean-Luc Barbier souhaite donc maintenant qu'un juge ordonne que des mesures provisionnelles soient prises afin de saisir et analyser l'ensemble des textes diffuses par la scientologie en Suisse.

Avec la scientologie il y a vraiment "deux poids, deux mesures".

Si l'Association d'Aide aux Victimes de la Dianetique et de la Scientologie (AVDS) commettait de telles illegalites elle aurait vite la police sur son dos et ses fichiers seraient aussitôt saisis.

Est-il normal que Jean-Luc Barbier soit sans cesse qualifie de SP ("suppressif" - un sale juif en d'autres temps) par les scientologues et qu'il subisse sans cesse leurs attaques ? (Par ex : campagne de rumeurs- diffamations - instrumentalisation de la justice ... Voir ici :
http://www.anti-scientologie.ch/etapes-manipulation.htm )

De quel droit la scientologie peut-elle constituer des fichiers sur ses opposants et refuser d'en communiquer le contenu ?

La scientologie agit comme un groupe extremiste et totalitaire et elle ne respecte pas la loi. Elle nous le prouve une nouvelle fois par ses recentes diffamations.

La plaisanterie a assez dure.

Il faut que nos autorites agissent afin que la scientologie cesse de profiter des failles de notre (nos?) systeme(s) juridique(s). La liberte de croyance n'autorise pas de tels comportements.

La scientologie doit etre interdite

Le GRAVIS, le 8 septembre 2006

--

[English translation]

Jean-Luc Barbier persists and testifies!

Jean-Luc Barbier demonstrates that Scientology is a criminal Church performing dangerous and illegal medical practices. After three years of litigation and more than 1,200 pages in the prosecutor's file, Scientology withdrew its counter-charge, seeing that Jean-Luc Barbier had good evidence of his charges! Jean-Luc Barbier opposed the ruling and asked the court that Scientology be forced to pay his legal costs plus damages to him in the name of justice, with the sole aim of restoring his good name. Because Scientology had already admitted its guilt in the media, it was also required to publish corrections at its own expense. Two new complaints were filed in June 2006 against Scientology.

If Scientology does not represent any danger to the security of the nation (according to the federal police report of 2002), it still represents a real danger to the citizenry. How many who resist can really make a cause without losing their resolve and money? Therefore, Jean-Luc Barbier has now demanded that a judge order provisional measures be taken to seize and analyze the entire texts distributed by Scientology in Switzerland.

Concerning scientology, there are really "two weights, two measurements". If the "Association for Assistance to the Victims of Dianétique and Scientology" (AVDS) had committed such illegal acts, the police force would have quickly been on its back. and its files would have been confiscated immediately.

Is it right that Jean-Luc Barbier is still called an SP ("Suppressive" - a dirty Jew in other times) by Scientologists, and that they continue to harass him? (They do through rumor and slander campaigns and legal actions.) See: http://www.anti-scientologie.ch/etapes-manipulation.htm

What right has Scientology to assemble dossiers on its critics and refuse to reveal their contents? Scientology behaves like an extremist, totalitarian group, and does not respect the law. It proved this yet again by its recent slander.

This nonsense has gone on long enough. Now our authorities need to act to prevent Scientology from taking advantage of "our" legal system. Freedom of belief doesn't include such behavior. Scientology must be stopped.

Le GRAVIS, September 8, 2006

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Roger Gonnet on Radio France

On September 5, 2006 "Roger Gonnet" posted:

The National Radio "France Inter" has done a show on cults and money. The show is "Le Telephone Sonne" and is interactive; people ask questions directly to those choosen by the radio. It was 37 minutes long.

[Link: http://www.radiofrance.fr/franceinter/em/letelephonesonne/index.php?id=46817 ]

Three were interviewed: Catherine Picard, ex-deputy, co-author of the famous law "About Picard" and president of the french "CAN" - called UNADFI; Jean-Pierre Brard, deputy, Mayor of a large suburb from Paris, secretary of the last Commission of the french Congress (Assemblee Nationale) about cults and me.

The show will be posted on the radio's website soon; it can also be gotten already on P2P onto ED2K:

ed2k://|file|Les%20sectes%20(Le%20telephone%20sonne%20-%20France%20Inter%205%20sept%202006).mp3|17659200|DCE4EA60B2191B77ABF3C9E026BDB066|/ [long link] [php file]

Roger Gonnet
Opposant à la scientologie depuis 23 ans
Opposing scientology crime cult since 23 Years
www.antisectes.net
http://scientologie.fraude.free.fr
http://ccdh.critique.free.fr
http://narconon.critique.free.fr
www.xenufrance.net

Message ID: 44fdc0e6$0$1774$636a55ce@news.free.fr

--

Welcome Back Tony Bosnakoudis

On September 2, 2006 "Tilman Hausherr" posted:

Greek scientology critic website is back:

http://www.unchain.gr/

Message ID: vmhlf25kgr90bo5v0gngd4mksddsio64u8@4ax.com


Scientology Senate Race in Florida

On September 6, 2006 the St. Petersburg Times reported:

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/09/06/Tampabay/Berfield_says_focus_o.shtml

Politics

Berfield says focus on issues clinched victory

ST. PETERSBURG -

Kim Berfield defeated Frank Farkas for the Republican nomination to a Pinellas-Hillsborough state Senate seat in a hard-fought campaign marked by sharp and personal attacks.

[...]

Berfield survived Farkas' stinging accusations that she was beholden to the medical and insurance interest groups that helped finance her campaign. Now, she faces Democratic state Rep. Charlie Justice in the general election for state Senate seat 16, which observers call the most competitive state Senate race in Florida.

[...]

The sharpest barbs between the fellow legislators came toward the end. Farkas sent out mailings claiming Berfield was "active with the Church of Scientology."

[...]

Message ID: vt40g2dfvbdsrhn1kd48rjvq3netr9rasd@4ax.com


CalTech on Dianetics Circa 1950

On September 8, 2006 "Arnaldo Lerma" posted a historical article reviewing Dianetics:

DIANETICS: The Modern Science of Mental Health
' by L. Ron Hubbard
Hermitage House, New York, $4.00

Reviewed by Charles E. Bures,
Assistant Professor of Philosophy and Psychology

DIANETICS PROMISES anyone a new personality and a new life at little cost of little effort and even less knowledge. This promise alone, well-publicized, is enough to attract a wide and enthusiastic public. What is Dianetics and how important is it?

The main popular emphasis has been on the practice of Dianetic therapy, but Hubbard's sketchy theoretical facade for this practice might well be outlined first. Briefly, Hubbard claims that the mature adult has three minds: reactive (engramic), analytical (conscious), and somatic (motor-effector). The reactive mind begins, presumably, with conception. It records physical pain or painful emotion (whose?) in the cell tissue of the zygote and of succeeding developmental stages. And it "thinks only in identities." (What does "thinking" mean here?)

The recordings of the reactive mind are called engrams, and it is stated that none are ever lost. Engrams may be pre-natal or post-natal. Some pre-natal engrams arc caused by pain resulting from physical contact. Others are the recording of verbal interchanges, somehow "overheard" by the pre-natal denizen, and presumably recorded if they are detrimental to his welfare. Engrams call be reactived by similiar circumstances, and then operate as inhibiting commands on all other human functions.

How is it done?

Hubbard offers no evidence as to how speech can be recorded on cell tissue (later to be reclaimed and verbalized), nor does he attempt to explain how physical pain alone, after being recorded, can function as a command. In fact no acceptable evidence exists for such phenomena, assuming even minimal meaning.

With the maturation of the nervous system, analytical mind develops. It includes the center of awareness, all computational ability and all standard memory experiences which are not engramic. (Note the implication that all important rational functions of this mind are computational.)

We are told that Dianetics has discovered that analytical mind is "inherently perfect" (errorless). Only the aberrative effects of engrams prevent our using this perfect, errorless instrument of rationality for a fuller, richer life. Engrams are the single source of all irrationality, all psychosomatic illness, all unethical behavior. (More recently it has been reported that the group contends that all disease is psychosomatic unless proved otherwise!)

Dianetic therapy requires an auditor and a patient. One of the alleged discoveries of Dianetics is the ability of anyone to return along his time track to contact earlier recordings. This is not standard remembering, it is claimed. In a relaxed state (reverie) the auditor tells the patient to return to engrams, to reduce them by repeating their content until they disappear. They appear refiled in the standard memory bank of analytical mind, accessible to remembering.

In the clear

With all engrams erased and refiled (one becomes a "clear") if only the more serious engrams are erased, one becomes a "release." (Does a clear have to he retrained or is his perfect rationality immediate?) Since engrams are the sole source of aberrations, the clear is presumably an errorless computer, ethically good and optimally healthy. Hubbard writes as if he is speaking from a study of a number of cleared cases, but no data are given on the size of his sample, if any.

A wider context for this system is provided. The single fundamental principle is Survival, the "dynamic principle of existence." This dynamic principle has four separate dynamics: survival of self, offspring, group and Mankind. Rational behavior is the harmonizing of these four dynamics, the drive for survival is inherent in the individual. Hubbard states, "it is a new thought that Man is motivated only by survival." This is one of many new thoughts rediscovered by Hubbard.

A reward (pleasure) is provided as an incentive for the survival drive ---even though this drive is inherent and necessitous. Yet the ethical theory is summed up: "The best solution to any problem is that which will bring file greatest good to file greatest number of human beings." To effect all of these things calls for a pre-established harmony!

Criticism of Dianetics should begin wilh the main point of emphasis, practice. It is urged above all else that anyone who will try Dianetic therapy will be convinced, for "It works!" One basic confusion evident in this contention is the identifying of practice and confirmation (validation). This confusion is not an exclusive possession of this system. It fits well into the practical temper of American culture, where the term "theory" is often a smear term. This is a misreading of pragmatism, and in the extreme it is a false identification of knowledge and value.

Practice in psychotherapy is control of a psychological situation toward a goal. Values enter the picture in the form of a preferred goal, e. g., improvement of human effectiveness. Knowledge enters in terms of the control process and the prediction that such controls will attain the goal.

The criteria for Dianetic method and the alleged results are described and explained by means of certain concepts. Since Hubbard regards his system as an autonomous science of mind, it is clear that his sole source of data is the introspective reports of patients undergoing therapy. This is the main implication of the "it works" attitude. Systems based entirely on introspective reports are regarded by careful students of psychology as uncontrollable. They have no predictive value for behavior of the whole person. What happens is that behavioral terms are smuggled in. But this is psychology, and Hubbard states that Dianetics is not psychology'.

Obviously in Dianetics therapy something happens The terms Dianetics do not give us any informa- tion as to what happens, because two fundamental steps are omitted. First, the concepts must he operationally analyzed to give them meaning. Hubbard seems completely innocent of this requirement. Further, when we know what we are talking about, then we must accumulate objective evidence for confirmation of our assertions. Evidence already, exists for such phenomena, but Hubbard is so convinced that his discoveries are new and original that he will have none of the old evidence, nor does he give any for his contentions.

"It works"

Despite many statements that the system rests on precise axioms, demonstrated natural laws, measurable entities, scientific facts, no reliable evidence supports these claims. Instead, we are told "It works." Evidence exists that Hubbard regards professional scholars as obstructionists and dolts. For whatever motives, it was more profitable and safer to issue an undocumented volume, with promissory notes on evidence. Believing himself in possession of many incredibly simple discoveries, Hubbard apparently also felt that the usual scientific amenities were unnecessary. This in the face of qualified opinion that amateurish meddling with human minds is dangerous.

Since Hubbard has denied to critics that his system rests on a mechanical analogy, it is instructive to point out that engineer Hubbard relies heavily on the analogy of computing machines.

The mathematical biophysicists and the cyberneticists have recently attacked phases of psychology and sociology, by means of neurological or mathematical models. This approach does have some heuristic advantages, but it must be handled with caution. Such theoretical models are greatly over simplified today. They are workinq hypolheses, not yet "scientific facts."

For one thing, such models are usually based on microscopic (neural) events. Human behavior, especally of the whole person, is macroscopic. No existing model, based on an analysis of microscopic events, does justice to macroscopic data.

Hubbard's concept of analytical mind is undoubtedly such a model. There is little doubt that he confuses his model with observable macrolevel behavior. This tricks him into a thoroughly out-moded instinctivist position, with all major postive components inherent in the individual. It has taken careful scientists two generations to overcome a similar nineteenth century, position.

Hubbard confuses the idealized perfection of a computing machine with analytical functions of the mind, hence we have errorless ra- tionality in the "clear". Error, then, can he attributed to a single source, the engram. Hubbard can believe that human salvation is so very simple only because the complex problems are hidden to him by his instinctivist solution. Others, more aware of the results of the last century, know that relinquishing instincts, through sound operational analysis, introduces the the complexity of socialization and cultural relativity.

Reminiscent of the early days of psychoanalysis is the manner in which Hubbard seeks to secure his system against attack. To the early orthodox analysts-and even to a few today-criticism indicates unconscious resistance. The critic needs analysis to see the light. Tom Hub bard, any critic must have aberrant engrams. This is a confusion of psychological states with topical principles of validation. This stand also violates a basic scientific tenet, namely, that data must be open to alternative explanations. Hubbard's position gives a closed system of undeniable evangelical advantages, but one that is confused and essentially meaningless.

Hubbard openly disavows metaphysics and mysticism, yet he makes Bergson's "life force" the foundation of his whole viewpoint. He seems unaware that this is a wholly discredited metaphysical concept, inapplicable by scientific standards of operational analysis. The author mentions that Darwinian evolution was his first inspiration toward Dia- netics, but with his instinctual and metaphysical basis, it is not strange that he ignores natural selection.

This hook is carelessly written. Even some of the adherents to Dianetics admit this. A typical careless, statement is the following: "Dianetics is not psychiatry. It is not psychoanalysis. It is not hypnotism. It is a science of mind and needs about as much licensing and regula- tion as the application of the science of physics."

This has been excused by some as simply enthusiastic propaganda. But internal evidence shows that this is an attempt to inflate the originality of the thesis at the expense of more solidly established knowledge, and possibly to sidetrack criticism from the directions indicated. Such insula- tion can only lead to a cul-de-sac by eliminating both validating evidence and the prediction of the behavior of the whole person.

Novelty is not enough

Controversy over this book indicates a widespread popular belief that novelty alone entities a thesis to serious consideration. Partly this arises out of the publicized open mindedness of the scientific attitude.

Novelty is of two kinds: novelty of data and novelty of theory (or explanation). Hubbard claims great originality for his data. Are his data novel? Qualified scholars believe they are an uncritical rehash of known facts in new terminology.

Novel terms do not guarantee novel data. Here is where careful meaning analysis is paramount. After meaning analysis has settled whether data are novel, then we may ask if the explanation is novel.

Alternative explanations of empirical facts are always possible. Here recognized experts have a prior right to be heard over one who advances an insufficiently supported hypothesis. Counting noses of adherents is not evidence. Hubbard protests that he is scientific, but his main support consists of the lame position that others have made complex what is really a simple matter. Some mastery of the constructive achievements of other scholars is necessary, and this is a naive hook because it reveals a profound innocence of the major advances of the past century.

A characteristic feature of Hubbard's writing is the exaggeration of his own originality by implying that his predecessors were virtual morons. Here is a random selection that speaks for itself:

Hubbard remarks that, while it has long been felt that facing reality is necessary for sanity, no one had conceived that perception is the line of communication to reality. Again, he holds that the value of recall for the business of living has occupied scant attention. Finally, for the biologically literate: "it has been poorly considered in the past that a set of survival characteristics in one species would not be survival characteristics in another." Such opinions are typical, not exceptional.

What's it worth?

This author is so out of touch with contemporary achievements in the fields into which he ventures that, in the reviewer's opinion, this work does not merit serious attention. It is given critical attention here only because of the uncritical following it has attracted. If there are any suggestions of value in this movement, they will be supported by continuity with past efforts, not by evasion of intellectual responsibility.

In summary, Dianetics mistakes a highly over-simplified model for a solution to important human problems. It disregards operational analysis and search for adequate controlled evidence in the proper directions. Because of its archaic metaphysics, its outmoded exclusive emphasis on survival, and its discredited instinctivism, it pays only lip service to the established social and cultural contributions to human personality. Its assumption of inherently perfect rationality masks for the gullible the effort, the learning and the critical attitude that are necessary for a balanced rational approach to life problems. Everything attempted here has been done better by others and with a proper sense for the protection of the uninformed.

Multi-page .tif File suitable for evidenciary purposes, this is an image from microfich, 4 pages total caltech-on-dianetics-1950.tif

http://www.lermanet.com/dianetics/caltech-on-dianetics-1950.tif

If Only the first page is viewable in your web browser( as it is in mine), Right click and download, then open with IrfanView or other recent vintage image viewer. This is a multipage monochrome tif file.

OCR by Arnie Lerma 8 September 2006

This file above is webbed HERE:
http://www.lermanet.com/dianetics/caltech-on-dianetics-1950.htm
Arnaldo Lerma
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON

Message ID: 5a94g2lr40hvpum3c0q8b8r9v91bbldaqe@4ax.com


More Members Leaving and Talking

On September 2, 2006 "ethercat" posted:

Thanks to Roger Gonnet, for the suggestion and the human translation, there is now a Through the Door site in French. The URL is:

http://alley.ethercat.com/frenchdoor/

I've added links to translate the site to English and German through Google, and a link to translate to Russian through Promt.

These links work on the click-throughs, that is, once the page has been through the translator, any links clicked from there are also translated.

There is also a link to more translators for other languages, although these don't work with click-through.

I've added the translation links to the English Through the Door site, as well. The English site can be translated (click-through) to German, Spanish, Italian, French, Portuguese, and Russian.

Any critical webmasters are free to use my code and the flag graphics to add translations to their own sites. You will need to modify the code slightly for your own pages.

Enjoy!
ec

--

"Maggie" posted:

Thanks for all you do, ethercat. Your site is one of the most powerful out there.

Message ID: 267jf29498dq7a6vjapsl3l3q3ui43kt5a@4ax.com
Message ID: 1157223857.237026.214730@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com

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On September 3, 2006 "neilc" posted a link to the Operation Clambake Forum:

http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=20459

Dr. Donna Shannon wrote:

My personal "wake up call"

Subject description: Why I left $cientology forever

I was a public Scientologist from 1995 until 2005, when I finally got beaten down enough to join the Sea Organization at FLAG. I was auditing on OT VII at the time. I realize now that it was the best thing I could have done, because waht I saw there caused me to leave. I'll never again have to spend my money on bogus cuses, like auditing or "helping clear the planet". As horrifying as my experience was, it did wake me up! And life goes on.

I'll start by just listing a few of the many outpoints I saw (I made my decision to leave based on WHAT I ACTUALLY SAW THERE, not the internet or anything else. As a "good Scientologist", I didn't pay any attention to "entheta". My purpose here is to share with others my own experiences, so that they don't need to spend over a million dollars, and join the SO, just to learn what I now know.)

1. The "tech" isn't applied to the staff at all. Examples of this- if PTSness causes all illnesses, and the tech exists to handle this, why do the staff get sick? And, why do they immediately get put into isolation if they get sick?

If auditing really works, and "OTs" are more powerful, why doesn't the staff get auditing? I was on OT VII, but sleep deprivation, lack of vitamins, low-protein diet, and lack of suitable available auditing rooms cut WAY down on my sessions. Eventually, I just gave up (and I was only there for 3 months!).

I was posted in the Solo NOTS HGC, as a Director of Processing. I immediately became concerned at seeing how many people who were "on OT VII" were not auditing (over 1/3). The other D's of P were not, except for one, who was allowed special hours and could drive her car to work. She occasionally got a session. The others didn't audit. The C/Ses didn't audit. The staff was not allowed to do six month checks. I thought, but if LRH says you have to be sessionable and get 8 hours sleep and eat protein and take certain vitamins and get your six month check, WHY isn't "standard tech" being followed?? The recruiters had told me that I would get all of the above-8 hours sleep, good food, vitamins provided, a room to audit in, etc. This was ALL LIES.

[...]

2. The main method used to control the staff in the FSO is intimidation, threats, and invalidation.

I expected a very calm, sane environment there, where everyone was "OT" and helped each other and things got done. Guess again!! Not only does no one teach you how to do your post, they HINDER you- a good example of this is the fact that I was there for 2 months and STILL had no computer log in. I was supposed to be a D of P, and contact "my" public, but I had no log-in. No matter how many reports I wrote, it didn't happen. At first, I thought it was just incompetence. But, it isn't. It's INTENTIONAL.

I was told that my husband and I would always have the same schedule, that we could eat together, and have the same days off. Another lie. We had ONE day off together in the 3 months we were there.

The screaming, foul language, and invalidation, caused a general unease in the area that was so thick you could cut it with a knife. People in the SO have very low morale. They can't trust each other. They won't help each other. Once the Board I/C, Geary Titus, actually STOMPED on my feet when I was new, and trying to look at the availability of auditing rooms for my public to use. I was always being told "there aren't any rooms". Anything that can be done to impede your progress IS DONE.

[...]

3. I was told too many lies.

4. I saw that the public were ridiculed, to some extent. Thier sessions were videotaped, their overts and withholds publicly discussed in the HGC. This is contrary to the "priest/penitent confidentiality" that is supposedly there.

5. "Valuable" staff members, such as auditors, were treated like dirt.

There actually is a part of staff meeting where staff members can be held up to ridicule for any reason- the "It's got nothing to do with me" club. When I first saw this, I was astounded. A staff member that I knew well was put into this "downstat club". He was forced to stay an extra 2 hours after his usual day (so he could only get about 4 hours sleep, at best), to do "MEST work". I thought, why didn't they just apply the conditions?

6. The C/Ses only got about 4 hours of sleep, and sometimes were forced to stay up all night. These are the people who are "programming your case"!! They don't audit. They don't get refreshers. They aren't allowed to drive their cars, because one had a wreck when he was too tired to be driving.

7. The buses are overloaded and the drivers are sleep-deprived. The law is violated multiple times daily, as the capacity of the buses is written on a placque in the front of the bus. The buses run late, and there are not enough, but if you are late for your "post", boy, are you in trouble!

8. There are at least 3 people watching each staff member work- security guards, ethics officers, "inspections" officers, CMO, etc. If each staff member actually did something besides spy on other staff members, there might actually be production going on!

This is just the beginning- these are only a few of the outpoints I saw. And I have many many examples of each, that I saw with my own eyes.

There is an evil pall over the Hacienda. No one smiles. No one uses the pool or fitness center. They have no time. They have no energy. They are being kept in and spied on and prevented from leaving. Sure, you can have a car. But, did anyone tell you that you have to do CAR SCHOOL in order to drive it? And ahve a signed "CSW"? More about that later!

--

"formerlyfooled" wrote:

This is a very revealing and disturbing statement by a courageous ex-SO and public member, Dr. Donna Shannon. Thank you for posting this, neil c.

What surprised me the most was how overwhelmed and enturbulated staff must be to not see the 'danger' of having long time public member be in a position to even observe this chaos!! You would think that staff would have realized that Dr. Shannon was not the kind of newbie that has nothing with which to compare the situation with.

Usually staff at least try to give the impression and apparency of order when public members are around, especially OT's, who later become S.O. members, because they come in with higher standards which have not yet all been chipped away by the cult environment.

I was a 'public' member for most of my years in Scientology, but my history includes working for the church as a staff member, hired worker, Field Staff Member or volunteer at different levels and locations. I had many opportunities to observe problems like she describes and just how thick the environment can get.

I remember, atpne Cl IV org in particular, running into what seemed like perpetual issues concerning staff which were effecting public. Upon my asking the staff involved few simple questions, it was revealed to me that corrections were not getting done when staff members screwed up. When I asked how long it had been going one, one staff member showed me a closet stacked with years of cramming orders that had never been done on staff. Years later, nothing had been done about it, despite reports my myself and staff.

What Dr. Shannon wrote is probably not as uncommon as one might think.

I hope scientologists reading this thread will see that staff are held to different standards than the ones the public come in with and are educated to believe. When you see something not standard according to tech and policy and you are looked at as a nuisance, that organization is long past the point of self correction.

Heads must have rolled after management got wind of Dr. Shannon's post. With this repost and hopefully more Dr. Shannon reports, I pray staff will seize the opportunity to create a 'safety plan' to get out as soon

--

"Scamology" wrote:

This is a very true post. I went to Flag several times. It was a bait and switch. Flag tour comes to town promising fast and perfect service at Flag. When you get to Flag you find a shortage of everything except registrars. They suck you dry of donations for everything from Super Power building to Able, to SMI, to ASI, to Narconon, to Criminon, to IAS, to IHELP. Meanwhile each week I got an un-interned flubby auditor that wasted time. Or I got an interned auditor that could only deliver a couple hours a week. It's a real crappy place compared to what they advertise.

Oh and I forgot the recruitment. You will be recruited incessantly for Sea Org if you are elligible. They definitely want slave labor company if you are up for throwing your whole life away for $50 bucks a week.

Message ID: 1157304567.002132.272030@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com
Message ID: 1157312548.220382.73910@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com
Message ID: 1157402821.409077.230790@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com


Scientology-Related Media

On September 2, 2006 Tilman Hausherr posted:

Video: German artist Petra Perle against scientology (4.5.2001):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9esCiHs63g [video file]

Message ID: gvllf2licq4qbbifr5set5v0a7kmuf13d1@4ax.com

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On September 3, 2006 " "formerlyfooled" posted new links:

[bbc uk radio show. How the Volunteer Ministers endangered trauma victims 2001-2006]

BBC co. UK Radio show July, 2, 2006
'Scientology versus Psychiatry':

"Reporter Elodie Harper goes undercover to reveal the tactics used by Scientology followers in the immediate aftermath of traumatic events. "

[...]

Click :Listen using stand-alone Real Player
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/fivelive_aod.shtml?fivelive/flreport_scientologynew [audio file]

or direct link to it via RealAudio
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/shows/rpms/fivelive/flreport_scientologynew.ram [audio file]

Title Flreport_scientologynew
Artist / Source BBC Radio Five Live
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/shows/rpms/fivelive/flreport_scientologynew.ram

Message ID: 1157384016.624826.124290@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com

--

On September 4, 2006 "neilc" posted:

In the UK there is a popular day-time talk show called Richard & Judy - hosted by the married couple Richard Madeley and Judy Finnigan.

They are both famous celebs in Britain.

Last October ex-Sea Org Astra Woodcraft was interviewed on the show, along with OSA spokesperson Janet Laveau.

Anyways, after the show there was a live webchat, where Richard and Judy answered viewers questions online.

Here's the relevant quote:

LRonHubbard : why weren't you a lot harder on that scientology woman?
Darth_yoda : Richard and judy would you be happy if any of your children became interested in scientology?
suzi puzi : hello.. what is your personal opinion on scientology?

Richard : Neither of us particularly believes in beating up interviewees who may have something to hide. It's up to all of you to judge but hopefully the way we questioned her, rather than expressing our own views, we revealed in a more subtle way the inconsistencies in the religion. If either of our children were to want to become scientologists we'd strain every sinew to stop them, we think it's a very dubious religion, if you can even call it that.

http://www.channel4.com/community/showcards/R/Richard_and_Judy_-_Oct_05.html

Message ID: 1157415311.984450.229460@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com

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"Formerlyfooled" posted a link to a newly created blogspot:

http://free-from-scientology.blogspot.com/

Message ID: 1157421181.676450.285580@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com

--

On September 5, 2006 "runningwild" posted:

[Peter Brennan: Public Scientology Teacher]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3449527277051413188&q=scientology

YES this is a spoof.

Message ID: 1157460394.894871.241120@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com
Message ID: 1157464462.321505.6170@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com

--

On September 5, 2006 "Chip Gallo" posted:

Every so often, I've been adding to the "Scientology, Good Bad and Ugly" group on MySpace. Recently I visited "Ex-Cult Members Unite!" and they are wondering where all the ex-Scn are. I mentioned Clambake and Dr. Donna as some of the most relevant information online. Stop by and say hey.

http://groups.myspace.com/ExCultMembers
http://groups.myspace.com/scngoodbadugly

Message ID: 0cgLg.495$Ka1.338@news01.roc.ny


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