One opened, more to go... Operation Clambake present:

I hope you die in pain


 

This turned so ugly I had to show it.

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 15:27
From: [NAME & ADDRESS REMOVED]
Subject: your type <----
To: ahi@xenu.net

On Notice. ....
Your efforts to push falsehoods will only and with SO MUCH certainty paint your mind into a corner eventually. Anyone like you from here on out for the next 100, 400 or 1,000 years will end up like the psychiatrists. Why are they committing suicide and being deregistered you should be asking and studying? crimes to patients against society with no regard to the spiritual nature of people. We understand mankind to be partially criminal in certain sectors and they too ( & You ) need to have their very spirits lifted with wisdom on life.Somehow you need to not continue pushing negativity but positivities for the good of mankind. Your name will never appear for having righted a wrong on the philosophical landscape.
I feel sorry for you and would like to help you. Dramatizing as you are all that you "see" as wrong but is actually right.

Statistics show the fastest growing Church than any other anywhere ever. !!!!! [NAME REMOVED]


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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004
From: "Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <heldal@online.no>
To: [NAME & ADDRESS REMOVED]
Subject: Re: your type <----

Hi,

At 05:27 01.01.2004, you wrote:

> On Notice. ....
> Your efforts to push falsehoods will only and with SO MUCH
> certainty paint your mind into a

I challenge you to find any falsehood on my site. This challenge has stood unanswered for 7 years now, maybe you can change that?

> corner eventually. Anyone like you from here on out for the next
> 100, 400 or 1,000 years will end up like the psychiatrists. Why
> are they committing suicide and being deregistered you should be
> asking and studying?

There is no difference in behavior between the common Scientologist and the rest of us. If there were only one OT or if the state of Clear was only partly true, then I would have to refute my claims. But there are no OT's, and the state of Clear is only an imagination.

Sorry.

> crimes to patients against society with no regard to the spiritual
> nature of people. We understand mankind to be partially criminal
> in certain sectors and they too ( & You ) need to have their very
> spirits lifted with wisdom on life.Somehow you need to not continue
> pushing negativity but positivities for the good of mankind. Your
> name will never appear for having righted a wrong on the
> philosophical landscape.

I'll talk philosophy with you when you have documented the falsehood on my site. Be my guest, tear it apart. I'll even make your devastating revelations publicly available so that all can see how you proved me wrong.

> I feel sorry for you and would like to help you. Dramatizing as you
> are all that you "see" as wrong but is actually right.

Least of all I need you pity. It is truly sad that you spend your good intentions on a criminal and destructive cultic group when there is so much use for you in the real world. But it is your freedom to also make wrong decisions.

> Statistics show the fastest growing Church than any other anywhere
> ever. !!!!! [NAME REMOVED].

What statistics? We know and can prove that Miscavige and his gang doctor their statistics. Who do you rely on here? No statistic outside the CoS, anywhere in the world, support the CoS claim that it is the fastest growing church. It is simply a lie told internally to boost moral. What have you done to verify the "documentation" you have been given?

Some use statistics as a drunk use a light pole; for support instead of enlightenment. be careful how you build your reasoning...

Read my site, THEN come back and criticize it if you dare. Show me where I am wrong, show me your communication skills.

Take care.

Best wishes,
Andreas Heldal-Lund    #    home.online.no/~heldal    #    www.xenu.net
Phone: +47 88 00 66 66 # Address: Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Each of us does what we can do.   Our obligation is to do it as well as
we can,  with as much grace, dignity,  integrity and honor our egos can
tolerate.
---------------------------------------------[Robert Vaughn Young]-----

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 18:40
From: [NAME & ADDRESS REMOVED]
Subject: Re: your type <----
To: "Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <heldal@online.no>

Geees, you're on the back foot. Does that prove yet again to me that you are defending everything you've written ( without reading I must say ) up in "your" mind to be factual? Yes of course.
We go in at the top and take groups to court..even Governments ie German Gov and France on certain issues. They've paid for court costs and on the result. Sorry about that!!! have you heard any BIG sensational news worthy stories slapped into the press in recent decades that say Scientology loses or has lost? NO next down the food chain will be onto the next level of bugs and insects and cockroaches we will take on, so don't take on a shade of that type of vermon ( You ) as you too will be sitting up in Court and paying for falsehoods and claims. I really enjoy taking on psychiatrists as they electric shock their patients. they're crying in their drink these days !! To win you need to contest all you know in the Court and get a result now o t h e r w i s e you will never know whether you have wasted your time of not. The wins Scientology has never reaches newspapers because newspapers are just as illinformed as you and they would rather shoot first than check for themselves the workability of Scientology. So tell all your types to keep your heads up high....so we can keep you in sight for your time in court. It's only a matter of time IF you can hang onto health and stay alive for it. [NAME REMOVED].

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004
From: "Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <heldal@online.no>
To: [NAME & ADDRESS REMOVED]
Subject: Re: your type <----

Hi,

You accuse me of pushing falsehood and I challenged you to document your claim. All I see is that you too try to weasel out of that one. Just reply to the simple challenge and document your claim! Or didn't you know what you were talking about when you made the accusation?

At 08:40 03.01.2004, you wrote:

> Geees, you're on the back foot. Does that prove yet again to me that
> you are defending everything you've written ( without reading I must
> say ) up in "your" mind to be factual? Yes of course.
> We go in at the top and take groups to court..even Governments ie
> German Gov and France on certain issues. They've paid for court costs
> and on the result. Sorry about that!!! have

What have they paid? You believe everything CoS tells you?

Here are the court cases:
http://home.snafu.de/tilman/krasel/germany/rulings.html

> you heard any BIG sensational news worthy stories slapped into the
> press in recent decades that say Scientology loses or has lost? NO

YES, many!!! Go through my news archive for examples.

> next down the food chain will be onto the next level of bugs and
> insects and cockroaches we will take on, so don't take on a shade of
> that type of vermon ( You ) as you too will be sitting up in Court
> and paying for falsehoods and claims.

Move outside your imaginary world. What about Wollersheim and the Time lawsuit?

Wollersheim:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/wollersheim/

Time Mag:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/media/time910605.html

Let me know if you need more examples...

> I really enjoy taking on psychiatrists as they electric shock their
> patients. they're crying in their drink these days !!

We do not live in the fifties anymore. Hubbard cried and begged for psychiatric help after WW2, he had psychiatric drugs in his body when he died. He was a liar and a hypocrite.

Letter begging for psychiatric help:
http://www.clambake.org/archive/ronthenut/beg.htm

Hubbard's coroner report:
http://www.clambake.org/archive/ronthenut/corpse.htm

> To win you need to contest all you know in the Court and get a result
> now o t h e r w i s e you will never know whether you have wasted your
> time of not. The wins Scientology has never reaches newspapers because
> newspapers are just as illinformed as you and they would rather shoot
> first than check for themselves the workability of Scientology.

You just want to be duped, don't you?

> So tell all your types to keep your heads up high....so we can keep
> you in sight for your time in court. It's only a matter of time
> IF you can hang onto health and stay alive for it. [NAME REMOVED].

See if you dare to investigate both sides before you make all these cocky predictions. You sound like a fool as long as you can't even back up your claim that I spread falsehood. You offer no documentation or proof to back up your claims, all you got is hot air.

Is this the "communication skills" and "logic" you learn in CoS?

Take care.

Best wishes,
Andreas Heldal-Lund     #     home.online.no/~heldal     #     www.xenu.net
Phone:  +47 88 00 66 66  #  Address:  Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone can show me, and prove to me, that I am wrong in thought or deed,
I will gladly change.  I seek the truth,  which never yet hurt anybody.  It
is only persistence in self-delusion and ignorance which does harm.
--------------------------------------------------[Marcus Aurelius]--------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 17:38
From: [NAME & ADDRESS REMOVED]
Subject: Re: your type <----
To: "Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <heldal@online.no>

There is no wish to worry about defending Scientology philosophy but if I were you I would. I feel SO sorry for you...truly. You're either an ex-psych patient or from your own efforts burnt your mentality out with heavy street drugs.
It's a sick world you live in and yet to find out that you need to be able to step out of your head somehow, catch the reality of where you are not.
What a horrible, dismal, calculating, insidous jerk you have turned out to be. You wouldn't be ashamed of this too which inturn leaves no chance of you changing FOR yourself or for those who unfortunately know you. I would say you're already on file anyway.....and as we stoop to lok who is down the food chain, we'll pick you up to confront.court possibly.

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004
From: "Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <heldal@online.no>
To: [NAME & ADDRESS REMOVED]
Subject: Re: your type <----

Hi,

In other words: You admit that you can not document or defend your accusation. Secondly, you are not able to investigate the documentation I provide that proves your claims are wrong.

This is what Scientology has done with you? And you expect me to take your words for granted?? Sorry, but my brain is still working. :)

Take care and good luck.

Best wishes,
Andreas Heldal-Lund     #     home.online.no/~heldal     #     www.xenu.net
Phone:  +47 88 00 66 66  #  Address:  Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're like a dull knife that just ain't cuttin'. You're just talking loud.
You ain't saying nothin'.
-------------------------------------------------------[James Brown]-------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 22:06
From: [NAME & ADDRESS REMOVED]
Subject: Re: your type <----<BR> To: "Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <heldal@online.no>

Just send me a written report that I can send to the nearest Church to you that says that you're closing down your criminallistic site full of hatred against man bettering him or herself through spiritual enhancement and awareness. You would prefer crime to continue among the suburbs and pain to go on.
It's remarkable what answers The Church of Scientology has for the manic depressed, mentally insane and turn them into spiritual enhanced Beings. It's so wonderful !!!!!!! Log onto www.psychassault.org and see who is doing the damage along the same lines as you........ Goodbye

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004
From: "Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <heldal@online.no>
To: [NAME & ADDRESS REMOVED]
Subject: Re: your type <----

Hi,

Give yourself some credit, you are making yourself look stupid with your very poor replies.

Your almost total lack of communication skills are typical for people under the Scientology spell. The lies served by CoS has never survived the light of day in the real world, so they train their people to automatically reject anything that contradicts their spell.

Notice how you try to focus on my motives and background instead of looking at the actual claims and documentation. Ad hominem is typical for almost all Scientologists I've met (and that's many over the years!).

In your opinion you have found the "Truth", so whatever I claim that contradicts it, must be wrong. Your problem is that even you aren't convinced or brave enough to truthfully check it. And this is in line with how CoS trains you. The top management of CoS, contrary to you, know as well as I that Hubbard was a fraud and that I got the proof. But as long as they always find some people like you they will earn money on continuing the lies internally.

Why do you think I've been able to do what I've done for over 7 years without the CoS managing to stop or sue me?

Since you don't dare or are able to truly investigate both sides, you have to "find" a secondary reasons for my criticism. You assume by default that there is no logic or proof behind it, so you and CoS must fabricate an alternative reason. You've been trained well and immediately take it for granted that I must be either an "ex-psych patient" or have used "heavy street drugs". Sorry to disappoint you, but I have never ever tried any drugs in my life, I live a very healthy Norwegian life with a diet including a lot of fish. I've never been treated in a mental or other hospital or taken psychiatric drugs. I'm not a criminal, but got a very good position in an international company. Sadly for you and CoS I do not fit into the perception you have of a critic, like most critics don't. But would you dare to check it...? And if it turned out that some of what CoS told you was not true, would you be able to see it??

If you had only bothered to read my site a little better before writing to me you would have known that it is futile to send what you sent. Still you did, and now you are left with trying to weasel yourself out of an impossible communication situation. Sorry pal, but I'm not giving it to you for free. You initiated this.

Take care.

Best wishes,
Andreas Heldal-Lund     #     home.online.no/~heldal     #     www.xenu.net
Phone:  +47 88 00 66 66  #  Address:  Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I started thinking, and I got carried away."
                   - Dan Garvin when asked how he got free from Scientology
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:31
From: [NAME & ADDRESS REMOVED]
Subject: Re: your type <----
To: "Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <heldal@online.no>

I read your pathetic reply and all the time through it I tried to find out if you're male or female. Your name suggests both as I know the name of here with a male....
It wouldn't matter if I contested everything you offered up here, it is impossible to get past your fixed negative ideas in order to grace another point of view. Yes, I still can and have always prior to and since starting ithe Church. I'm just me. There are many types that are the same as you. It is impossible for you to look earlier in your life to find out what you've done. You are stuck in a drama which is evident here that you're going on so much about Scientology and you hate it's very existence. Could you help another? Has help failed you? It is known ( disregardin Scientology here ) and I knew this simple fact well before Scientology, That those who have a definite desire to hate and hate anyone else getting help, are in fact quite criminal mentally...as they ( You) don't suppose anyone can get help or don't want others to do better or improve and would rather keep them down and in pain, stress or depressed. So given that Scientology has help m! any on this front, I can only sum you up here as a VERY ugly and horrid person who has crimes in your mind. I hope you die in pain because you wish others to stay in pain. So catch yourself a disease and scream all your years to you drop. I AM SO HAPPY WITH AND IN SCIENTOLOGY THAT IT'S A GODSEND. I KNOW MANY OTHERS A R E VERY HAPPY AND OUR EXPANSION IS OUT RUNNING ALL OTHERS. SO IT'S TOOOOOO LATE ARSEHOLE WE ARE THE WINNERS AND THE STATS ARE UP!!!!!!!

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004
From: "Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <heldal@online.no>
To: [NAME & ADDRESS REMOVED]
Subject: Re: your type <----

[NAME REMOVED],

There is no sane reason to even try to explain to you that you are acting as a class example of how poor Scientologists are at communicating. You just don't, and probably never will, see it. It is very difficult to even try to understand what might have been your initial motivation and reason to write to me in the first place. I'll let that rest.

All you have achieved so far is to once more show that you Scientologists have no case and are poor communicators. All you have left is a lot of hot air and threats. All you can say is that I serve falsehood and when I politely ask for examples and/or proof of your claim, your only reply is that I must be an "ex-psych patient" or have used "heavy street drugs". You call my request for proper replies from you pathetic. You claim I hate you or CoS (which is not true, disagreement is not hate). You make up other fantasies about me, like I do not want others to get help or get better. Then you say I am very ugly and horrible with crimes in my mind. One thing is that you call me an arsehole, I can live with that, but I consider it to be a threat on my life when you whish me a painful death!

This is to what length you are willing to go just because you are unable to stand by your accusation. I am stunned…

You have serious issues and I hope you one day will consider getting help. A normal and healthy person does not whish others to get diseases and "scream all your years to you drop" just because they have different opinions. Is that how a Scientology society would be like? Is that what Scientology does to you? Then any attempt to create a Scientology society deserves the same unison resistance as Hitler's ide of a Third Reich!

Consider this: You say I have no effect since CoS is growing, you say there is nothing you can say to make me change (so you don’t have to document your claim…) - so why do you then waste time writing all this to me???? Do you often indulge in acts without any meaning or sense?

I know the dark side of CoS, I know the lifes that has been ruined. That does not mean I don't believe others have different and positive experiences. But one good does not make the bad invisible. Families have been split, many have lost their childhood, people have been seriously hurt, and some even died. They also have a right to be heard, no matter if you choose to close both your eyes and ears. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t force it to drink.

And by the way, I often change my opinions. That is why I challenge them and ask for your documentation so that I can validate my claims. I want to know the truth, no matter what it is. If there were only one OT or if the state of Clear was only slightly possible to document, then almost all the skepticism would vanish. Just let one OT show his or her power over MEST and you and all your friends can gloat from here to eternity. I will change my opinion if such evidence was presented and I will publicly admit it without shame. James Randi has a reward for $ 1 million if someone can show these powers. The money is waiting in the bank! Imagine the incredible media attention if a Scientologist was the first person to win over the famous James Randi! But none can. There are no Scientology Nobel Price winners, and where are all the Scientologists with Olympic medals? They simply do not exist because their extraordinary abilities are only in their imagination.

If you are happy in CoS then for Pete's sake stay in it! I've never told you to get out; I've never approached you or had as a goal to convert anybody. You voluntarily went to my site and I did not force it upon you. You chose to contact me; I did not initiate this e-mail exchange. My goal is to make sure all sides are equally represented so that people are truly free to make educated decisions. I want people, who themselves want to investigate both sides, to be able to do so easily. You are now in the luxurious position of having very easy access to both sides, how you act in that situation is totally up to you. I'm happy if you are happy, as a Scientologist or not.

So go on believing the doctored statistics from CoS and RTC are correct, despite all the contradicting evidence saying they are not. Believe you are part of an organization that is about to save the world, the universe and your very own soul. Believe it will help you find eternal bliss. If it gives you a reason for living then stick with it, I certainly do not want to take it away from you. Put your trust in the legacy of L. Ron Hubbard and in RTC if that is what you want.

I might not agree with you on several issues, but I totally respect your freedom to do whatever you want with your life. I'll even fight for your right to think, talk and be who you are. I'm happy to have a dialog on equal terms with you, provided I got time. Not to change your mind, but to hopefully make both of us a little bit more tolerant and maybe wiser.

But don't come here with your hypocritical threats and incredible demented mind set of hate just because you don't like what I say! Stand up like a sane and intelligent human and respectfully go somewhere else if you don't like what you see. Don't sit there and whine and play insulted. I despise this stupidity and your threats; you lost all the respect I had for you. Come back after you have reconsidered if you one day wish to have a grown-up debate, or keep your hateful mind inside CoS if that is what makes you tick.

You have the nerve and impudence to accuse ME of hating YOU?

Grow up, take care.

IMPORTANT PS: I would advice you to reconsider and clarify your post regarding your wish for my painful death since I am considering turning it and the full headers of all your e-mails over to the police.

Best wishes,
Andreas Heldal-Lund     #     home.online.no/~heldal     #     www.xenu.net
Phone:  +47 88 00 66 66  #  Address:  Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Humanity has the stars  in its future,  and that future is too important to
be lost under the burden of juvenile folly and ignorant superstition.
---------------------------------------------------------[Isaac Asimov]----

"Assassination is the extreme form of censorship."
- George Bernard Shaw

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